I didn't see any threads on this so here it goes.

I am a democrat, an atheist, and am straight, I believe that homosexuality is perfectly ok. I really don't see why 90% of Christians, not only Christians but a lot of religions think that it is so wrong. Like how does someone's sexual preference affect your life. I am quite intelligent and tonight I sat and thought about how people would be affected by it and I couldn't think of a single reason.

And for those people that are gonna say I don't want him/her touching me. Believe me gay people know who is and is not gay. They will not hit on you.

Opinions please.

I don't mind if someone's gay, and they can get married in my opinion, but don't call it marriage, marriage is the union between a man and a woman, they can get something equivilent to marriage, but not called marriage.

I don't agree with that statement that it sould not be called marriage. What has the world come to? I have heard some strage things though about homosexuality. I have heard someone say that they think that most gay men are gay because they were raped but wouldn't that make them straight? kidding... I believe in nature not nurture. Also I have heard that gays should not be able to adopt. WHY!? So they can't marry or adopt? This sounds like being a black women in the 1800s. Like why do we have to be prejudice against others. We are all created equal. Some people's intelligence just amazes me.

you obviously didn't read into my comment. They should be able to get something equivilent to marriage, but by definition and defined by the BIBLE marriage is the bonding and union between a MAN and a WOMAN. Homosexuals should be allowed to have this same bond/union, but by a different name, they can still be married, but instead of married, a different title.
Some people's intelligence just amazes me.
AND NEVER IMPLY I AM LESS INTELLIGENT, ESPECIALLY IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT I SAID IN THE FIRST PLACE

Can I ask how it'll affect your life if we called it marriage?

it's not how it's defined in the bible

Sorry if you misread my comment actually. I know I did not organize it well but I am not insulting your intelligence; I am just talking about some things I have heard.

In the Bible that is what marriage is defined as but I don't think we should segregate homosexuals because the word marriage is defined as a man and a women in a book says that's what it means.

it's not how it's defined in the bible

Why does it matter how it's defined in the Bible? What's the Bible have to do with the marriage of two consenting adults of the same gender?

If you look in the dictionary it does say a man and women but that definition will be changed once we have George Bush out of office and gay marriage is legalized.

a book says that's what it means.
The bible is not just a book, it's a way of live and a religion, the laws are written in a book, does that mean you can murder and say, "it's just a book."?

What laws are you talking about? The laws of the United States? If so they may be in a book but they were written by real people and we know they are real because we've seen them not some beings that may or may not be real.

The bible is not just a book, it's a way of live and a religion, the laws are written in a book, does that mean you can murder and say, "it's just a book."?

Well, yes, of course!

Kill Homosexuals
Leviticus 20:13: "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

And non-believers too, we can't forget about non-believers
Exodus 22:20: "Whoever sacrifices to any god other than the LORD must be destroyed."

YA the Bible is so against any like humanity. It promotes slavery, women degrading, mass killings and other disgusting things.

And also... how come genocide in Africa occurs? Is god a racist?

But you must understand, Christians hold this above the book of laws... so you can't just throw that out because it's not what you believe, otherwise we'de be in eternal conflict if people did understand opposing viewpoints and compromise.

Yes I know that, that's why we have freedom of religion. I personally believe people should have faith in something so that we all don't believe nothing happens when we die but to base your life on anything is ridiculous in my eyes.

in your eyes... but this country was founded on Christianity, that's why in the Pledge of Alligence it says "One nation under God"

But you must understand, Christians hold this above the book of laws... so you can't just throw that out because it's not what you believe, otherwise we'de be in eternal conflict if people did understand opposing viewpoints and compromise.

This is why I hate religion, it JUST HAS TO be implicated on every subject in our lives.

Robby, don't turn into the other Christians around here. You KNOW it's wrong.

If you were a homosexual and there was a book that flat-out said you must be killed for being who you are, you'd still respect it? Give me a break

And even if it is a belief, it's YOUR belief, not everyone elses. Keep it to yourself.

in your eyes... but this country was founded on Christianity, that's why in the Pledge of Alligence it says "One nation under God"

Most of the founding fathers were secularists and believed that religion should NEVER EVER be imposed in our government. If this country was truly built off Christian beliefs and morals then women would be degraded, homosexuals would be killed, non-believers would be deported, and slaves would be sale around every corner.

I'm compromising by sugguesting they can get married, but call it something else to keep the die hard Christians happy, and if you're gay and want to be married, what's it matter that it has a different name, does it affect YOU in any way?

in your eyes... but this country was founded on Christianity, that's why in the Pledge of Alligence it says "One nation under God"
I completly support you. Even though i don't live in america i belive in god and i personly don't mind homosexuals. But i also agree with what robbyskateboard say, "they shouldn't call it marriage" Because like he said in the bible that is not how it is defined

Yes this nation was built on Christianity and that's why it is becoming such a pussy nation. There is about .5% chance of being elected anything in the government without being Christian. I believe religions were created when people did not have science and could not explain anything so they said that some higher being is controlling it so let's kiss his/her ass until we die.

I'm compromising by sugguesting they can get married, but call it something else to keep the die hard Christians happy, and if you're gay and want to be married, what's it matter that it has a different name, does it affect YOU in any way?

Why the hell don't THEY change it? No one is forcing them to get pissed, it's their choice.

Why don't they change the name of their "marriages" to something like "Bible Love connection" or whatever the hell they can think of.

Why do OTHER PEOPLE have to change to make THEM happy?

Why do atheist always push their believes, as if to say, look at me, I'm different, I don't believe in what you do, I'm so mature. No other religion talks about their religion as much as atheists.

Why the hell don't THEY change it? No one is forcing them to get pissed, it's their choice.

Why don't they change the name of their "marriages" to something like "Bible Love connection" or whatever the hell they can think of.

Why do OTHER PEOPLE have to change to make THEM happy?
Because the Bible was their first, and if you truely are in love with another of your gender, why would you care what they call it?

Are you kidding me? You obviously don't live in the south. I live in waht is called the Bible Belt and just about everyone is a Chrisitan in some form or another. ALl they do is talk about it it's quite annoying being an atheist so that's why my beliefs are so strong because I can't express them without being seen as a total douche bag.

Why do atheist always push their believes, as if to say, look at me, I'm different, I don't believe in what you do, I'm so mature. No other religion talks about their religion as much as atheists.

Push our beliefs? What the hell are you talking about? Our beliefs that we don't belief in God? Are we the ones complaining that "we shouldn't call it marriage." No, it's you. What have Atheists done to change in the lives of Chrisitans?

You want people to respect you and your book despite it wanting homosexuals and non-believers killed?

No thanks...it's not your country, it's ours.

Because the Bible was their first, and if you truely are in love with another of your gender, why would you care what they call it?

What do you mean it was there first? Like we're in some kind of race?

Weren't the Indians here first?

Not to mention, the founding fathers (read a book about them) were secularists and believed the separation of Church and state were VITAL and that not doing so would be disastrous.

I'll take their word over yours any day of the week, including Sunday.

You Can't ****ing Compromise, That's What I Mean, You're Stubborn Ass Holes

You Can't ****ing Compromise, That's What I Mean, You're Stubborn Ass Holes

What's there to compromise? If homosexuals want to get MARRIED then LET THEM?

Why should me, or you, or ANYONE ELSE have the right to change what they want to do?


I don't get it, I honestly don't. Homosexual marriage does not affect me or you IN THE SLIGHTEST yet you want to compromise and it makes zero sense.

you're not ****ing listening:
They can get married, but call it something else other than marriage

Compromise? What is there to compromise? In the world if we are not religious we are discriminated. People just don't understand how we don't have faith and it goes right back around for religious people. I personally think that it's rather strange to believe in a higher being other than for support and understanding in yourself or you could just go on Dr. Phil.

I'm done with this, you're too close minded, why'd you start a topic on it if you weren't going to be open to sugguestions?

I'm done with this, you're too close minded, why'd you start a topic on it if you weren't going to be open to sugguestions?

A Christian, who believes the Bible 100% with no evidence, and wants to impose what we call marriage and what we don't on everyone else based on THEIR beliefs is calling us close-minded.

Where's Ashton Kutcher? Am I really being punk'd?

You got this totally off topic. I started it on homosexuality and why people think it strange.

marrage is NOT between a single man and a single woman
through out history and only in recent times is 1man and 1 women commen place
to be 100% accurate back in other periods of time marrage was between 1man and more then one wife. And in other times it was between 1man and another man.
so you cant say *MARRAGE IS ONLY BETWEEN A MAN AND A WOMEN*
becouse that is a flat out lie.

This is the debate in a nutshell and it's so pathetic:

Emcee Common: People shouldn't interfere with whether two consenting adults should get married

RobbySkateboard: yeah, let them get married but don't call it marriage

razz: why not

RobbySkateboard: because the Bible says so!

razz: Why does it matter what the Bible says?

RobbySkateboard: OMG!!!! Respect my beliefs!!!!

razz: what?

RobbySkateboard: OMG ATHEIST! So Close-minded!

This is the debate in a nutshell and it's so pathetic:
your being very childish at the moment and not letting others speak their mind
which is making alot of people discard what your saying

Leviticus 20:13: "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

See, what I find funny, is when people quote this in defense of the whole "No homosexuality" bull****. They don't realize that in Leviticus, it also says if you've cut your hair, you're an abomination in the eyes of God, and if you've eaten sea food, you're an abomination in the eyes of God. Now, who is the "sinner." now? Really, think about it, if someone wants to make their relationship concrete with another, what is the matter with letting them do so, even if it is called marriage? Take a look from their shoes, alright? What would you do if you wanted to be married to your significant other, and someone said "Alright, you can have a Happy time friendship license, it's basically the same thing." And why, you ask? "Oh, because someone's religion doesn't agree with your freedoms, even though there is freedom of religion, or the lack thereof. You don't have to believe it, but we will impose it on you." Doesn't that seem just a bit ignorant? Love is love man, let it be, man to woman, woman to man, man to man, woman to woman, we're all human.

Leviticus 20:13: "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

See, what I find funny, is when people quote this in defense of the whole "No homosexuality" bull****. They don't realize that in Leviticus, it always says if you've cut your hair, you're an abomination in the eyes of God, and if you've eaten sea food, you're an abomination in the eyes of God. Now, who is the "sinner." now? Really, think about it, if someone wants to make their relationship concrete with another, what is the matter with letting them do so, even if it is called marriage? Take a look from their shoes, alright? What would you do if you wanted to be married to your significant other, and someone said "Alright, you can have a Happy time friendship license, it's basically the same thing." And why, you ask? "Oh, because someone's religion doesn't agree with your freedoms, even though there is freedom of religion, or the lack thereof. You don't have to believe it, but we will impose it on you." Doesn't that seem just a bit ignorant? Love is love man, let it be, man to woman, woman to man, man to man, woman to woman, we're all human.


and thats exactly why i love you paddy

Oh, and I forgot to add..

Don't get me wrong, you are free to believe whatever you want dude, and I am fine with it. But, do not impose your beliefs on others, especially in a country where freedom of religion/separation of church and state is what's up. Personally, I have a lot of different beliefs, and I put a lot into Rastafari, though not all.

Leviticus 20:13: "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

See, what I find funny, is when people quote this in defense of the whole "No homosexuality" bull****. They don't realize that in Leviticus, it also says if you've cut your hair, you're an abomination in the eyes of God, and if you've eaten sea food, you're an abomination in the eyes of God. Now, who is the "sinner." now? Really, think about it, if someone wants to make their relationship concrete with another, what is the matter with letting them do so, even if it is called marriage? Take a look from their shoes, alright? What would you do if you wanted to be married to your significant other, and someone said "Alright, you can have a Happy time friendship license, it's basically the same thing." And why, you ask? "Oh, because someone's religion doesn't agree with your freedoms, even though there is freedom of religion, or the lack thereof. You don't have to believe it, but we will impose it on you." Doesn't that seem just a bit ignorant? Love is love man, let it be, man to woman, woman to man, man to man, woman to woman, we're all human.

A common defense is "hate the sin, love the sinner" and you'll hear it a lot from the average theist.

However, contrary to their deity on judgment day, I'm sure he does more than hating the sinner when they're sent to hell for eternity.

utterly pointless argument
im over it

utterly pointless argument
im over it

Could you tell me the name of the person that forced you to post?

I'm all about having people post their opinions but what's the point of posting an opinion that adds nothing to the thread? The only thing pointless are those kinds of posts.

If you can't add to the debate, you don't have to tell us, no one cares.

Could you tell me the name of the person that forced you to post?

I'm all about having people post their opinions but what's the point of posting your opinion in a debate thread saying that it's pointless?

The only thing pointless are those kinds of posts.

If you can't add to the debate, you don't have to tel us, no one cares.

acturally i saw this thread after a 2hour coke,tea,coffee session and i was hyper
now its 2am and i need to be up at 7am
so im trying to calm down and get tired
meaning im done thinking/debating for now

Could you tell me the name of the person that forced you to post?

I'm all about having people post their opinions but what's the point of posting an opinion that adds nothing to the thread? The only thing pointless are those kinds of posts.

If you can't add to the debate, you don't have to tell us, no one cares.

How does telling him that you don't care contribute at all to the subject? Isn't that a bit hypocritical? Maybe you should evaluate your points? See, the thing is, you telling someone that you don't care just furthers the problem, I find it funny. Doesn't posting to tell someone you don't care just furthering the problem that you oh so rabidly try to prevent?

How does telling him that you don't care contribute at all to the subject? Isn't that a bit hypocritical? Maybe you should evaluate your points? See, the thing is, you telling someone that you don't care just furthers the problem, I find it funny. Doesn't posting to tell someone you don't care just furthering the problem that you oh so rabidly try to prevent?

If there was a science teacher and halfway during their lecture a student stands up and says "science sucks! What's the point in learning this"

And then we'll say the teacher turns to the student and says "you're interrupting this lesson with your opinion. You don't have to be here if you don't want to, you can leave, it's your choice."

Would you blame the teacher and call him/her a hypocrite?

Yeah, I didn't think so....

I am religious myself but I beleive that the bible, also right in many senses on many subjects, is not the unedited word of god. I beleive many of the life lessons but I also beleive that some predjidices were passed on over the ages. In my oppinion same sex couples should be allowed to marry but it can not be called marriage. Although I do not uphold all veiws of the bible I do honor the word of the dictionary. However if the definition were to be changed I would except the union between same sex couples as marriage.

If you're a science teacher and halfway during your lecture a student stands up and says "science sucks! What's the point in learning this"

And then we'll say the teacher turns to the student and says "you're interrupting this lesson with your opinion. You don't have to be here if you don't want you, you can leave, it's your choice."

Would you blame the teacher and call him/her a hypocrite?

Yeah, I didn't think so....

So, suddenly this is a classroom, and not an open forum? We're not studying science, being lectured to by a teacher, we're having an open debate, and talking about homosexuality. You've somehow got it into your head that you have to be the teacher, and tell the student "You're interrupting this lesson with your opinion. You don't have to be here if you don't want you, you can leave, it's your choice." But you see, it's not a class, and you're not a teacher, and we're not students. He was not interrupting anything, he was just posting and saying "I'm done with this." And you, on your high horse went and jumped on him, because somehow you feed off the authority you gain from trying to tell someone your version of rules over the internet. If someone posts something and says "I'm over it for now, not gonna talk about it" is that skin off your back? The thing is, you waste just as much forum space by telling the person that posted that you don't care, and if you don't see that, then this whole post has been in vein. We are not students, this is not a classroom, this is a forum. No one is lecturing. If ANYONE interrupted, it is you, causing conflict is not the most mature thing to do...

Edit: Also, notice he said that the argument was pointless? He was expressing his opinion, which you called pointless. He raises an interesting point though, if you think about it. The argument is pointless, because no matter what is said here, people are still going to think/do/act the way they have, 9/10 that is the way it will turn out. If anything, it is a **** toss, because nothing will change from its' existence, at least nothing relevant. So, to an extent, he was correct. He is probably over it for a reason, because it is futile to squabble about it in the first place, everyone is set in their ways anyway, no matter how much logic is implemented on either side. Glorified **** toss.

They don't realize that in Leviticus, it also says if you've cut your hair, you're an abomination in the eyes of God
"Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him, but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory?" (1 Corinthians 11: 14-15, NIV)

"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State."
Thomas Jefferson

Marriage is an interpersonal relationship with governmental, social, or religious recognition, usually intimate and sexual, and often created as a contract through custom, ballot or civil process.
Wikipedia(not the best source I know, sorry)

I don't care if homosexuals get 'married'. They shouldn't be allowed to get married in the church. A church can bless a homosexual marriage, God will not.

homosexualality is difficult, because i am catholic, and God told us not to be gay, but he also told us to respect each other for who we are, so i don't really agree with homosexuality, but i'll let them do there thing. also i don't think you choose to be gay, i think your born with a like homorne problem or something, cuz just how society treats gays, i don't think you would want to be one.

So, suddenly this is a classroom, and not an open forum? We're not studying science, being lectured to by a teacher, we're having an open debate, and talking about homosexuality. You've somehow got it into your head that you have to be the teacher, and tell the student "You're interrupting this lesson with your opinion. You don't have to be here if you don't want you, you can leave, it's your choice." But you see, it's not a class, and you're not a teacher, and we're not students. He was not interrupting anything, he was just posting and saying "I'm done with this." And you, on your high horse went and jumped on him, because somehow you feed off the authority you gain from trying to tell someone your version of rules over the internet. If someone posts something and says "I'm over it for now, not gonna talk about it" is that skin off your back? The thing is, you waste just as much forum space by telling the person that posted that you don't care, and if you don't see that, then this whole post has been in vein. We are not students, this is not a classroom, this is a forum. No one is lecturing. If ANYONE interrupted, it is you, causing conflict is not the most mature thing to do...

Edit: Also, notice he said that the argument was pointless? He was expressing his opinion, which you called pointless. He raises an interesting point though, if you think about it. The argument is pointless, because no matter what is said here, people are still going to think/do/act the way they have, 9/10 that is the way it will turn out. If anything, it is a **** toss, because nothing will change from its' existence, at least nothing relevant. So, to an extent, he was correct. He is probably over it for a reason, because it is futile to squabble about it in the first place, everyone is set in their ways anyway, no matter how much logic is implemented on either side. Glorified **** toss.

I'll be honest, I didn't read your entire post. I stopped at "suddenly this is a classroom..."

What I used was something called an analogy. I'm sure you've heard of analogies when you were in school: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/analogy

Now you took that analogy literally which is quite embarrassing, but that's OK.

If someone is going to post in a discussion and add "I don't care, this is pointless" then everyone on the Cafe should do that with every thread they don't care about.

There are tons of threads which I could care less about but I avoid them, I don't read them. I don't go out of my way to let everyone know I don't care because that does nothing to add to the discussion.

kapish? It's really not that hard. If you have nothing good to say then don't say anything at all...I learned that in the 2nd grade :)

I know it was an analogy, but it was incorrect. A forum does not compare to a classroom, and that was my whole point, it was a false analogy. Read my post, you'd figure it out, at least I had the respect to read everything you said, you could do the same? I learned in second grade to let little **** go, not to cause conflict when it was not needed. Now, you see, you say "If you have nothing good to say then don't say anything at all...I learned that in the 2nd grade." The thing is, you could have just as easily let it go, and got on with the discussion, but you, in your "wisdom" decided to post a "I don't care" post, which was just as pointless as the post you were criticizing. No one cares if YOU don't care, and you just don't seem to realize it. :)

homosexualality is difficult, because i am catholic, and God told us not to be gay, but he also told us to respect each other for who we are, so i don't really agree with homosexuality, but i'll let them do there thing. also i don't think you choose to be gay, i think your born with a like homorne problem or something, cuz just how society treats gays, i don't think you would want to be one.

Please don't call it a problem because it is in no way a problem. They are as normal as you are maybe even more. So don't call homosexuality a hormone problem because it isn't, but it is genetics.

Razz, Im getting tired of all your posts degrading my religion. Everything is about how my god is violent, and my book is so bad. Why can't you just let it be? EVERYTHING you say is about how christianity is all about hate, and how our god is so bad because he thinks certain people should not go to heaven or something. If you dont believe in your creator, should you really go to heaven? Seriously, answer me this.. If you really don't believe in the guy who created you, and he makes it completely clear that if you don't believe you go to a horrible place, and you go against him, you should go to heaven? No. Quit attacking my beliefs, I have never attacked yours. You're such a hypocrite.

Anyways, I have no problem with homosexuality. Its their choice. I'm with Zero on the they shouldn't get married by a church. Really though, if thats what they want to do.. go ahead. I don't care, its their choice.

Well, yes, of course!

Kill Homosexuals
Leviticus 20:13: "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

And non-believers too, we can't forget about non-believers
Exodus 22:20: "Whoever sacrifices to any god other than the LORD must be destroyed."

The Old Testament is kind of just there, its laws do not apply to christians today. Just thought i'd point that out.

But anyway,

I am perfectly fine with homosexuality. They are citizens JUST LIKE STRAIGHT PEOPLE, and they should get EVERY RIGHT that we do.

I am perfectly fine with homosexuality. They are citizens JUST LIKE STRAIGHT PEOPLE, and they should get EVERY RIGHT that we do.

Word.

okay who cares they should get married god is telling you not be gay so don't worry about others and just because it says gays can't get married gays are probably atheist so they don't care they aren't chosing to follow the life of god so i personally butt out of their live it isn't my fault they are going to hell when they die

I personally think that if you are gay, and believe in God, that you go to heaven. I think that if you put your faith in God, pray to him, and ask for forgiveness, that you can be forgiven. If you ask God to come into your life, I think you can go to heaven, no matter who you are, what you've done, or anything else. Thats my opinion, God sees us all as equals, we are all equal in God's eyes.

^^ur probably rite man

okay who cares they should get married god is telling you not be gay so don't worry about others and just because it says gays can't get married gays are probably atheist so they don't care they aren't chosing to follow the life of god so i personally butt out of their live it isn't my fault they are going to hell when they die

So, if your gay, your an atheist?

Never knew that. :rolleyes:

And by "I butt out of their life", do you mean you dont associate with sombody if they are homosexual?

They are citizens JUST LIKE STRAIGHT PEOPLE, and they should get EVERY RIGHT that we do.

Okay, I'm not argueing that, I'm just saying that if they want to be married I think they should call it something else... Because as a Christian I believe that the relationship intitled in marriage is a spiritual relationship between a man and a woman, I believe that homosexuals should be able to have the same bond, but with a different name and they can have the same rights as married men and women. And yet I've gotten like negative 10 rep because I have an opposing view point, and you guys call the mods/admins here nazis? You guys are taking me down because I have a different believe, that's no better than what you're argueing against, hypocrites.

Ok, adoption of homosexuals.
It's a psychological thing. I've posted this elsewhere before.
I'm ALL FOR, AND A STRONG SUPPORTER OF homosexual rights.
But not adoption.
And I'm not sure they should quite have the holy matronome of marriage. Because holy does not accept homosexuality.
They should have a non-holy marriage.
Two, a child with two fathers or two mothers, would most likely grow up like they were raised. Looking at boys as hot, cute, sexy, like their fathers, who they want to be just like, and same with girls and their mothers. They would get teased, and all kinds of things. I just don't approve of adoption. Lesbians can impregnate themselves if they want. But that's something we can't control.

If they had no rights at all, why do they have a gay community? They have many, just don't have the rights to marriage or adoption atm.





kapish? It's really not that hard. If you have nothing good to say then don't say anything at all...I learned that in the 2nd grade


dude, you must not have passed that part of 2nd grade. you don't have many nice things to say about God, or the bible, or christians.
it's hypocritical
and once again your'e starting conflict in a peacefult discussion

Ok Ok Ok, There's not a darn thing wrong with Homosexuality, and before you go all Bible quotey, remember that the bible was not actually written by God himself.

I myself take the bible with an open mind, and it's teachings are good in general.
(New testament)

Although some of you may point quotes from the Bible as absolutley true, remeber that the Bible is full of answers with multiple meanings, and is a human invention.

If we all live like Jesus (And I'm not saying I do.) then wouldn't the world be a better place?

I don't think God would be too pleased if we all started killing gay people...

(Fingers crossed I don't get neg repped!)

(Fingers crossed I don't get neg repped!)
I'm not going to neg rep you just because I have an opposing viewpoint with you, unlike you... But I also agree with you, I'm not religious at all, but I think gay marriage should be called something else.

i like men
am i going to hell?


































NAHHHH i dont
but if i did would that make you lose respect/hate/flame/talk down to
if you answered yes to any of those
you might being to hell as well

Two, a child with two fathers or two mothers, would most likely grow up like they were raised. Looking at boys as hot, cute, sexy, like their fathers, who they want to be just like, and same with girls and their mothers. They would get teased, and all kinds of things. I just don't approve of adoption. Lesbians can impregnate themselves if they want. But that's something we can't control.

If that were true, then how do homosexuals come from non-homosexual parents?

and thats not true
i saw a documentry about it and they were saying the only difference childen in homosexural house holds faced was being made fun of
and their parents willl not effect their love life

I'm not going to neg rep you just because I have an opposing viewpoint with you, unlike you... But I also agree with you, I'm not religious at all, but I think gay marriage should be called something else.

You're not religious?
Can't say I'm surprised, neither am I.

But if you aren't religious, then why are you putting up such a massive argument against homosexuality?

I have nothin wrong with people that are gay.. but REALITY CHECK there is noooo such thing as that because God doesnt make mistakes.... sooooo it is our desision and that is sin so therefore gay/lesbian/bi is a way of calling out for attention and is just gross in god's book... he said man and woman

I have nothin wrong with people that are gay.. but REALITY CHECK there is noooo such thing as that because God doesnt make mistakes.... sooooo it is our desision and that is sin so therefore gay/lesbian/bi is a way of calling out for attention and is just gross in god's book... he said man and woman

way to contradict yourself.... you have no problem with them they are just abominations? if you really are closed minded be close minded but dont try and act open minded and be a hypocrite.

way to contradict yourself.... you have no problem with them they are just abominations? if you really are closed minded be close minded but dont try and act open minded and be a hypocrite.
no i am not trying to offend anybody but listen bud i can have my own damn opinions so back off read the bible next time

He never once attacked your opinion, just said that you were speaking out of both sides of your mouth.

But more importantly, why should your views of homosexuals in the eyes of your idea of God change the way I am treated.?

He never once attacked your opinion, just said that you were speaking out of both sides of your mouth.

But more importantly, why should your views of homosexuals in the eyes of your idea of God change the way I am treated.?
just.. idk you decided this for urself so i aint getting in your way... :icon_shru just whatever i can never talk in homosexuality/abortion forums just becaus e i speak out of both sides of my mouth doesnt mean it is a back thing...i am trying to be open minded

I have no idea what that post is saying. I think there are good thoughts there but they are very convaluded. Can you please try to organize them a bit better. I am not trying to be rude, but I am being honest.

umm how can i put this...
1. do whateva the heck u wanna do
2. I aint never able to be able to talk in these sorts of threads because people always be all wierd about it<bag:)
3. i have nothing against gay people I just dont believe what they are doing is right and possible
4. I aint trying to boss anyone around
Simplleee

The Old Testament is kind of just there, its laws do not apply to christians today. Just thought i'd point that out.

But anyway,

I am perfectly fine with homosexuality. They are citizens JUST LIKE STRAIGHT PEOPLE, and they should get EVERY RIGHT that we do.

That's very true. However the God of the Old Testament is the God of the New Testament. He hated gays, and still does. He also hates women's rights, witchcraft, and non-believers. He hates a lot of things...

I love it how Christians can actually say "God loves you" but then ignore the fact that God will throw all these people "he loves" in hell for simply not believing in him.

Razz, Im getting tired of all your posts degrading my religion. Everything is about how my god is violent, and my book is so bad. Why can't you just let it be? EVERYTHING you say is about how christianity is all about hate, and how our god is so bad because he thinks certain people should not go to heaven or something. If you dont believe in your creator, should you really go to heaven? Seriously, answer me this.. If you really don't believe in the guy who created you, and he makes it completely clear that if you don't believe you go to a horrible place, and you go against him, you should go to heaven? No. Quit attacking my beliefs, I have never attacked yours. You're such a hypocrite.

OK?

There is a section (in case you've forgotten) called the Christian section. This is where you and every delusional person who thinks the exact same can talk amongst yourselves about why women shouldn't have rights or why being gay is an abomination. (Leviticus 18:22)

dude, you must not have passed that part of 2nd grade. you don't have many nice things to say about God, or the bible, or christians.
it's hypocritical
and once again your'e starting conflict in a peacefult discussion

No, I don't have nice things to say about your God. The same God who hates women, gays, and non-believers (non-believer is me in case you havent figured it out).

If someone wanted to kill you for not loving them, would you respect them to?

Yeah, I didn't think so.

i have nothing against gay people I just dont believe what they are doing is right and possible

What is not possible, and how is it not possible, since they are doing it?

well my opinion is that people are free of choosing an oriantation I was a lesbian once but now im straight i think homosexuals shouldnt get rights cause if gay marriges increased population we'll go down and they're wont be lots of children so i say god made us all equal thats true but we're all straight gay people become gay cause of something happened to them at any stage we'll gays can do whatever they want i respect them cause i was once like them

well my opinion is that people are free of choosing an oriantation I was a lesbian once but now im straight i think homosexuals shouldnt get rights cause if gay marriges increased population we'll go down and they're wont be lots of children so i say god made us all equal thats true but we're all straight gay people become gay cause of something happened to them at any stage we'll gays can do whatever they want i respect them cause i was once like them

So you chose to become a lesbian?

well no i was really into girls but then something hit me and now im straight i still like girls though i love em actually and i wouldnt mind a lesbian relationship even though i'm straight

well no i was really into girls but then something hit me and now im straight i still like girls though i love em actually and i wouldnt mind a lesbian relationship even though i'm straight

Well Hayooy then you're not straight (or heterosexual), you'd be classified as a bisexual (someone attracted to both males and females).

I don't know how you could exactly "choose" to love the same sex. Which brings another question, why would someone choose such an orientation if they know the struggles they'd go through in life?

Love conquers all?

=P

I didn't see any threads on this so here it goes.

I am a democrat, an atheist, and am straight, I believe that homosexuality is perfectly ok. I really don't see why 90% of Christians, not only Christians but a lot of religions think that it is so wrong. Like how does someone's sexual preference affect your life. I am quite intelligent and tonight I sat and thought about how people would be affected by it and I couldn't think of a single reason.

And for those people that are gonna say I don't want him/her touching me. Believe me gay people know who is and is not gay. They will not hit on you.

Opinions please.
I'd actually like to see a source on where you got that fact from. I am Christian Catholic and although my religion looks down upon it, I have absolutely no problem with gays at all. My view on it is, if they want to have sex with other members of their sex then let them. If they live in a free society then it is within their rights to be gay.

I don't agree with that statement that it sould not be called marriage.
I don't understand how you could not agree with it dude. Every word has a definition. And the definition of marriage is:
1. the social institution under which a man and woman establish their decision to live as husband and wife by legal commitments, religious ceremonies, etc.
The word marriage clearly states that it is a institution under which a man and woman decide to live by legal commitments etc etc etc.
I have no problem with homosexuals. Their culture or their right to be joined.
However, the word marriage in the union of two men or two women is grossly miscarried. It's like saying "I am going to eat a brick". When in fact you mean to carry the brick. You using the wrong word.
A civil union I believe is the proper word for a gay marriage.

That's very true. However the God of the Old Testament is the God of the New Testament. He hated gays, and still does. He also hates women's rights, witchcraft, and non-believers. He hates a lot of things...

I love it how Christians can actually say "God loves you" but then ignore the fact that God will throw all these people "he loves" in hell for simply not believing in him.

Very true... I've wondered that second statement myself. Maybe to teach them all a lesson before the apocolypse is over and he makes a new earth or somthing like that? (cant remember what it says will happen in Revalations). But its 7:30 in the morning, i'm not too worried about thinking up another possible reason. haha.

I don't know how you could exactly "choose" to love the same sex. Which brings another question, why would someone choose such an orientation if they know the struggles they'd go through in life?
Exactly. I've been trying to get this point across since i was 11 years old.

Congratulations on your big gay sun by the way. Didnt you only have like, 5 gold bars yesterday?

What is not possible, and how is it not possible, since they are doing it?
they arent real attractions..minds play tricks

in your eyes... but this country was founded on Christianity, that's why in the Pledge of Alligence it says "One nation under God"

This country was not founded on Christian principals, and the "under god" bull**** wasn't added until the 50's. get a clue.

Beyond that the bible IS just a book of fairy tales for non-christians, we don't care what it says.

Aside from the fact that many non-christians get married, marrage that you are talking about is a civil-ceremony, it has nothing to do with religion. The definition of marriage in the bible has no effect on the discussion, language changes, if we are talking about computers and I say "mouse" are you confused as to why I am talking about a furry white mammal? no because you understand that the meanings of words change, marriage should be open to everyone.

IMO the solution is for everyone to get civil unions from the government gay or straight, if you want a marriage then you can see a religious person. That way all the religious nutters have nothing left to complain about and everyone is treated equally.


However, the word marriage in the union of two men or two women is grossly miscarried. It's like saying "I am going to eat a brick". When in fact you mean to carry the brick. You using the wrong word.
A civil union I believe is the proper word for a gay marriage.


do you get confused when someone tells you to "double click with the mouse" or how about when they tell you they are going to "catch a flight" or they need to "take off now". Maybe language is just too difficult for you.

Live and let live, man.

Gay people don't concern me. Life's difficult enough without bothering to tell other people how to be happy.

Although I don't see why they'd want to be parents, they're some confusing folks no matter what so I'm not going to try to understand their motivation. There's plenty of heterosexual folks who shouldn't be parents, either.

I definitely don't think people choose to be gay. I mean, could you choose?

Although I don't see why they'd want to be parents, they're some confusing folks no matter what so I'm not going to try to understand their motivation.


I would assume they want to be parents for the same reason other people want to be parents.

I associate my desire to procreate with heterosexuality. Planting seeds in fertile ground and all that.

Im a christian, I am completely ok with gay people. I am straight and I beleive it is up to the people who are gay to decide whether or not they should get married. It would be like saying you cant marry who you love.

they arent real attractions..minds play tricks

What evidence or experience do you have with this? Do you have any knowledge what so ever with the subject?

What evidence or experience do you have with this? Do you have any knowledge what so ever with the subject?
just whatever because i know i will end up saying something i will deeply regret so bye bye to this thread for me

I'm Christian & don't find anything wrong with it at all; it's not your own life so why should you care about it? It's their life to live, not anyone elses

Haha, razz, Im guessing you didnt read my post about how I think gays can go to heaven and I have no problem with them. Women's rights? Are you just pulling stuff out your ass? Dont judge me, you dont know me. You're judging me on the basis that I am a christian and all christians are the same.. Which is very stupid. Thanks for proving to me that you are just the kind of guy you are trying to fight against.. Still, a hypocrite.

*sigh* Why can't we all just debate respectfully? This is why I reported razz in the Christian section. He upsets too many people with his debating style.

Anyway, when it comes to anyone who sins willfully, I always let it be. Let them live their life. Let them know you're a Christian, because 9 times out of 10 they will know how you feel about it. You should only talk to them about it if they ask. And even if they do, you still remain civil.

Haha, razz, Im guessing you didnt read my post about how I think gays can go to heaven and I have no problem with them. Women's rights? Are you just pulling stuff out your ass? Dont judge me, you dont know me. You're judging me on the basis that I am a christian and all christians are the same.. Which is very stupid. Thanks for proving to me that you are just the kind of guy you are trying to fight against.. Still, a hypocrite.

Hypocrite: a person who professes beliefs and opinions that he or she does not hold in order to conceal his or her real feelings or motives

So by your definition, when I start defending the rights of homosexuals to live their lives of the rights of women to be respected you're saying that, deep down inside, I don't really mean it? :rolleyes:

Women's rights? Are you just pulling stuff out your ass?

Are you insinuating that I pulled a Bible out of my ass?

1 Timothy 2:11-12
11A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.

Exodus 21:7-11

7 "If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as menservants do. 8 If she does not please the master who has selected her for himself, [a] he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners, because he has broken faith with her. 9 If he selects her for his son, he must grant her the rights of a daughter. 10 If he marries another woman, he must not deprive the first one of her food, clothing and marital rights. 11 If he does not provide her with these three things, she is to go free, without any payment of money.

1 Corinthians 11:3
3Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.


*sigh* Why can't we all just debate respectfully? This is why I reported razz in the Christian section. He upsets too many people with his debating style.

If it was ANY other subject (favorite food, your political party, etc) you wouldn't complain. But you're trying to put religion on some kind of pedestal of respect, respect it doesn't deserve and has never earned.

So go back and dictate the Christian section, this is a debating section. No one is forcing you to post or read here, correct me if I'm wrong...

Gays created aids 'nuff said.

Gays created aids 'nuff said.

don't be so hard on yourself...

don't be so hard on yourself...


jackass... but at least you agree...

jackass... but at least you agree...

lmao it was a joke ;)

but hey, how can I be the jackass! You're the one who said gays caused aids!

All you do is attack me and my religion. Im done in here, dont judge me, never judge me. Only God can judge me, and you are nowhere near my god. So, dont EVER judge me. You know nothing of my religion, you had to have read the bible with a close mind. You are so stupid of my religion. But, eh, you know everything right? Im done with you.

This thread, on this forum, is proof that as a species, we're F*cked.

This could go on for the life span of your lives, our childrens lives, their childrens lives. Keep planting the seed and the war will go on.

Why can't people live in peace? Just let people be, a person sexual taste shouldn't define where they are put in society just like gender and skin colour shouldn't.

Marriage is a word dreamed up by predominatly white males to define their perfect little world. And don't pull that bible crap. You may believe what your fed but it doesn't mean we have to live our lives by it.

Our world will continue to barrel along, personally nothing will change. The religions will keep fighting, the racisits will keep hating and the *******s of the universe will thrive. To me the world needs a reset button to push, one huge f*cked up disaster to make people realize that we are all PEOPLE first and formost. We shouldn't be designing our lives around guidlines that were put down thousands of years ago.

Why can't people just get along? Who knows, were we designed that way? Or did someone screw it up along the way. Why can't the word marriage be redefined, it's not like it's set in stone.

For clarification I was born and raised a catholic by parents, a pursuit they failed. I am forced to attented the lecture people call church and listening to the priests is scary. At one point and priest said (straight faced) that christ wants you to come out of the closet. I burst out laughing but I don't think anyone else quite got it...

Ever noticed how the majority of religions hate on all the common theme's, women, sex, "vices" and ass kiss to all the others, overburding cermonies and rules.

Relgions will never get along, for the most part people will never get along. People will strive to change our world for the better but for the most part they've been crushed by single minded idealists who put their into life into something they have nothing to base their beleifs on. If God is all loving and wrote the "rules" saying death to homosexuals and beat down womens independance, isn't god the biggest hypocrite of them all?

All you do is attack me and my religion. Im done in here, dont judge me, never judge me. Only God can judge me, and you are nowhere near my god. So, dont EVER judge me. You know nothing of my religion, you had to have read the bible with a close mind. You are so stupid of my religion. But, eh, you know everything right? Im done with you.

Here's an idea. Now instead of calling me stupid, saying I'm close minded, calling my a hypocrite, etc...why don't you try refuting the things I say? I mean, what better way to make me look "stupid" than to dissect my posts and kill everything I've said.

I'm not attacking you, I'm attacking the religion of Christianity. If you happen to get insulted, you've made that choice. I don't get insulted when a Christian says I'm going to hell, etc.

So instead of crying why don't you try refuting my posts? Here's a start...see those 2 verses I just posted...explain to me (and everyone else) why we should believe (and respect) them.

Maybe you'll make such an amazing reply that I'll convert...

Its terribly unfortunate that I must step out and not post in this thread any more because of another member. I think that I have a knowledge and experience set that would be helpful for this thread. But once again a user has pushed me away from a thread that I would enjoy. If any one wants the opinion of a queer buddhist with quite a bit of study in world religions and American politics please ask me. But I will not be posting in this thread any more.

Relgions will never get along, for the most part people will never get along. People will strive to change our world for the better but for the most part they've been crushed by single minded idealists who put their into life into something they have nothing to base their beleifs on. If God is all loving and wrote the "rules" saying death to homosexuals and beat down womens independance, isn't god the biggest hypocrite of them all?

That's such a good point, awesome post.

People always ask me (more in real life than here) why I would spend time studying religion, challenging it, debating it, etc. Why don't I just let people live their lives believing what they want?

The answer is so easy, it's because the fundamentalists need to effect everyone's lives. They want to control everything and run things under their rules. To them, anything that opposes their religion is from Satan. I mean, it's not only that, look at all the innocent people (especially the young kids) dying because of religion.

Just look at our world and you'll see why Atheists & Agnostics are going after religion. If we don't it's going be some religion vs another religion, with nuclear weapons, and the people who don't subscribe to a religion will suffer because two groups can't keep their damn (and incredibly stupid) beliefs to themselves.

Gays created aids 'nuff said.

Actually, monkeys had it first.

lmao it was a joke ;)

but hey, how can I be the jackass! You're the one who said gays caused aids!

Didn't know you were joking..lol sorry..

And I don't hate gays,guys... I just don't approve of it...
And hey, well they did.

^No they didnt.

We werent even the first species to carry it.

So, if your gay, your an atheist?

Never knew that. :rolleyes:

And by "I butt out of their life", do you mean you dont associate with sombody if they are homosexual?

not thats not wat i mean and not i'm not saying that gays are atheist but being gay is against god's wishes and by i mean to butt out of there lives is to not be gay with them but i have gay friends and theres nuthin wrong with that

^Ahhh ok. I was about to get REALLY pissed off if you meant it the way i thought you did. haha.

Wow when i saw this topic i was like this should be fun but it looks like its gotten pretty serious...homosexuality is wrong...and always will be...Jmo from my christian point of veiw...i dont know why a man or woman would be attracted to the same sex in the first place...its not natural to be born attracted to the same sex...so what is a homosexual thinking when they come out of the closet... do they want to be different? is it somthing that happend as a child...or are they seriously very attracted to the same sex? i find that if anyone is gay they should not be killed or exluded but they should be treated equally thats my christian point of veiw and person point of veiw merged together i guess...if anyone can understand it.

^Men and women who are homosexual ARE born like that. They dont just wake up one day and are like "HEY EVERYONE! i'm going to be gay now! teehee!".

There are a few that are just to be different, but about 90% of them were born like that, and they cannot help it. So why is it wrong? That's like saying "Being retarded is wrong, because its not natural"

Those who think homosexuality is a choice should choose to be gay for a week.

^YES.

I love doig that to my friends. They'll be like "why do people choose to be gay its so stupid" and we get into an argument about how it ISNT a choice, and then i'm like "well if its choice, you be gay for a month starting right now." "NO! why would i do that" "Well, why wouldnt you do it? I mean, you could change right back if you didnt like it, right?" "Well um yeah but ummm ummm uhhh"

Its fun. :)

haha wow

^Men and women who are homosexual ARE born like that. They dont just wake up one day and are like "HEY EVERYONE! i'm going to be gay now! teehee!".

There are a few that are just to be different, but about 90% of them were born like that, and they cannot help it. So why is it wrong? That's like saying "Being retarded is wrong, because its not natural"

YIKES. homosexuality is NOTHING like mental retardation...NOTHING. retardation is a genetic defect caused by somthing unatural,,,drugs,,,alchohol,,,lead,,,chemicals. homosexuality is somthing in the mind somthing that makes somebody say HEY EVERYONE! im going to be gay now tee hee,,,

YIKES. homosexuality is NOTHING like mental retardation...NOTHING. retardation is a genetic defect caused by somthing unatural,,,drugs,,,alchohol,,,lead,,,chemicals. homosexuality is somthing in the mind somthing that makes somebody say HEY EVERYONE! im going to be gay now tee hee,,,
actually there are physical traits that homosexuals have that other people don't so being gay is also genetic in most cases

For real? sorry guess i should have looked into it more before i opened my mouth...but im a christian and just puttin my point of view

For real? sorry guess i should have looked into it more before i opened my mouth...but im a christian and just puttin my point of view
no worries man

Didn't know you were joking..lol sorry..

And I don't hate gays,guys... I just don't approve of it...
And hey, well they did.

Jesus you gotta be kidding me! Gays causing AIDS? Do you believe if you have sex standing up the girl cant get pregnant too?

^^^kk i'm confused um gays USED to have more aids then straights so that became a stereo type but now gays are nice people and don't do that **** on perpouse like "oh i'm gay so i have to get aids" no people need to understand that they have that lifestyle and in the end they are happy for now but after they die god won't forgive them if they didn't beg for it but idk i don't mind them and i don't care if they get married as long as they know wat god's punishment is going to be

^^^kk i'm confused um gays USED to have more aids then straights so that became a stereo type but now gays are nice people and don't do that **** on perpouse like "oh i'm gay so i have to get aids" no people need to understand that they have that lifestyle and in the end they are happy for now but after they die god won't forgive them if they didn't beg for it but idk i don't mind them and i don't care if they get married as long as they know wat god's punishment is going to be
ok go here http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/bb/neuro/neuro98/202s98-paper2/Bodian2.html it talks about how most homosexuals are like that because of the way there genes affect hormone levels. so how do we know that god isn't trying to tell us to accept them and not point the finger on a supposed sin?

ITS IN THE BIBLE but obviously if they ask for forgiveness before they die god will gladly forgive and they go to heaven and they also have to repent and stuff

ITS IN THE BIBLE but obviously if they ask for forgiveness before they die god will gladly forgive and they go to heaven and they also have to repent and stuff

Do they get to have gay sex in heaven? Because surely is its "wrong" then they cant have gay sex there which in fact means its not heaven for them at all.

^^um no u can't have sex in heaven...and idk ur confusing me yea it mite be hell for them if they can't have sex in heaven lol idk ur soul so u go straight through them "in hollywood terms" but i guess they shouldn't repent and go have gay sex in hell

^^um no u can't have sex in heaven...and idk ur confusing me yea it mite be hell for them if they can't have sex in heaven lol idk ur soul so u go straight through them "in hollywood terms" but i guess they shouldn't repent and go have gay sex in hell

Which means hell isnt that bad for them after all then, in fact not hell at all? Weird.

BRAIN HAX!

ITS IN THE BIBLE but obviously if they ask for forgiveness before they die god will gladly forgive and they go to heaven and they also have to repent and stuff
ok here's my view of the bible:
technically it was written by man so it is very possible that prophets of god may have misinterpreted god's will or even twisted it to make people who felt they were different feel they were sinners for the way they were. true there are some very good things in the bible but i feel that someone's bias got in the way.

also we tend to give homosexuals a special treatment. there are many other types of sinners out there! and yet all we battle are the people who are geneticly inclined to do what you define as sin. just my 2 cents

YIKES. homosexuality is NOTHING like mental retardation...NOTHING. retardation is a genetic defect caused by somthing unatural,,,drugs,,,alchohol,,,lead,,,chemicals. homosexuality is somthing in the mind somthing that makes somebody say HEY EVERYONE! im going to be gay now tee hee,,,

Not to be an ass, but that was probably the stupidest post i've seen in a VERY long time.

First off, retardation isnot only caused by drugs/alcohol/lead/chemicals/etc.

Second, ONCE AGAIN, homosexuality is NOT SOMTHING YOU CHOOSE!

Senor Waffles, PLEASE, quit acting like you know exactly who is going to hell/heaven/what you can do in heaven/etc. You dont know, your not God.

i agree that the bible was probably edited by man, phlap

^^Do you base that on anything?

If it was ANY other subject (favorite food, your political party, etc) you wouldn't complain. But you're trying to put religion on some kind of pedestal of respect, respect it doesn't deserve and has never earned.

So go back and dictate the Christian section, this is a debating section. No one is forcing you to post or read here, correct me if I'm wrong...

Is this what you've heard, or is this what you've observed from me? Write your own thoughts, don't rely on Dawkins so much. I think I know what you'll say, "stop relying on the Bible too much." I make my own rebuttels, I don't get everything from a 1.5 hour long movie.

Just be respectful. I vote this thread closed.

Why does religion have to ruin everything?

We could let this thread go on, for days, weeks or years until someone snaps and hits somebody, or someone gets hurt and then it's all downhill.

One of the reasons I don't want to have anything to do with religion in the inncredible snobishness that the average person has to suffer through.

"Well are religions right!" - Christianity
"No it's not OURS is!" - Middle Eastern religions
"Nu uh"
"Ye huh"
"Nu uh"
"Ye huh"
*slap*
*punch*
"Oh ***** you sooo gonna die"

And then we get the fun little game or war. Or leaders (religious, political and otherwise) leading the poor buggers who don't know better to their deaths.

What I don't understand is why that you think the bible/"gods" rules are right. Did he tell them to you in his sleep? Did you have a nice brunch with god?

This is taken from a comedian who's name I can't remember (If anyone can please tell me)

Just imagine living your life to what YOU thought god wanted, getting to heaven, and having god greet you in a tye-dyed toga and say "SUPRISE...teehheeee"

I see a lot of people basing their decision because of their ridiculous faith, so,

2 Questions to the Christians here:

Let's just, hypothetically speaking, assume that the Bible said that being a heterosexual was a sin and an abomination (and you deserved to be put to death).

Let's also assume that the majority of society, in general, were made of homosexuals. Let's go even further and say that these homosexuals are using the Bible as a means to justify their actions against heterosexuals.

1) My question is would you (and could you) change and become a homosexual for the rest of your lives based on the Bible alone?

2) And would it be fair for the homosexuals to persecute you based on what their scripture says? If they called your heterosexuality a choice, would you have the right to be upset?

Rofl.

Now before I start let me say this, this is not based or aimed at the religious folks on this website, it is aimed at the radicals and their followers and anyone who believes this ****.

Credit goes to Trey Parker and Mat Stone for making South Park.

Watch the episode where Butters is forced into gay camp, amazingly…it’s true.

loveinaction.org

exodus-international.org

Not to many things in this world can make me want to laugh and vomit at the same time but this came damn close.

This is why I hate religion this is why I despise your bull**** ideals.

“We are confident in our Christian convictions to offer help to those desiring freedom from life-consuming behaviors. Drawing our authority from inerrant Scripture, Love in Action International, Inc., believes in the power of Jesus Christ to find freedom from any behavior, mindset, attitude, belief, or compulsion contrary to what the Bible prescribes for the believer.”

You may say that the church is fine with homosexuality but you have to know that it’s a lie. You may not but your church clearly does.

This is the ultimate perversion of a persons life. A camp where a group of crazed individuals (the counsellers, not the campers) force people who have a different sexual taste to endure the torment of being forced to convert. This camp’s not even just for homosexuals, you looked at porn, oh you soooo going to hell. You like kinky bondage sex? Yup your doomed.

Now sure this camp would be full of people who came on their own or who’s parents forced them here but that is where my main point is. Your church perverted their minds. You made either them or their parents think that homosexuality was wrong and that they or their children were doomed if they didn’t donate time and exorbitant amounts of money to “save” them.

“At Love in Action International, our belief is based on three foundational truths:

Truth One: There is no such creation as a "gay" or "homosexual" person. There is only homosexual attraction and behavior; accordingly, there can be no "change" from a sexual identity that never existed in the first place.

Truth Two: The truth for most men and women who struggle with homosexual behavior is that they will, at times, continue to experience attractions in large and small ways for a lifetime. It is often misleading and harmful to speak vaguely of "total" deliverance without mentioning the normal, ongoing struggles with temptations all believers have.

Truth Three: God sees homosexuality as sin like any other, and directs us to apply the same biblical model to it that we would to any other sin. His real solution for deliverance and healing is based on repentance and obedience.”


If homosexual’s aren’t creations, who f*cked up?

Imagine all the people who commited suicide from the teachings and ideals forced upon them from crazed bigots. Imagine the people who died because they thought that they weren’t normal and that hell was their only destination. That if they couldn’t change they might as well do their families and the church a favour. Imagine the sobbing families question their beliefs when they find their son/daughter/relative lying in the shower in a pool of blood. God didn’t want this? Did he?

I don’t question your faith of a “god”, I even hope there’s something up there, but I also hope it’s not the hypocritical bigot that it’s made out to be. (all loving…HA)

What is wrong with being gay? Absolutly nothing.

(Don’t flame just yet)

The church has turned into a bunch of “nicer” Nazis/KKK/Communists. They want to control and change what doesn’t fit into their ideal of perfection. They want their own little perfect world with their little perfect people. F*ck off.

HOW CAN YOU BELIEVE WHAT YOUR FED WITHOUT QUESTIONING IT? HOW DO YOU KNOW THIS IS RIGHT? THAT THIS IS WHAT GOD WANTS? HOW DO YOU KNOW THE BIBLE IS EVEN REMOTLLY RELATED TO HIM IN ANY WAY? WHY PUT YOUR FAITH IN SOMETHING THAT HAS HURT AS MANY AS IT HAS HEALED.

Why can’t you let people be normal?

Let people live their own lives and let them be.

Now I have another question for all you Christians. Would you still believe in this and be faithful to your beliefs if you were raised as and agnostic or athesist? Would you still have found Jesus? Children end up like their parents, children don’t get a choice. Would you still be the same if you grew up outside of any religious influence and then when you had some understanding of life, would you still choose Christianity?

I know I wouldn’t.

Now I have another question for all you Christians. Would you still believe in this and be faithful to your beliefs if you were raised as and agnostic or athesist? Would you still have found Jesus? Children end up like their parents, children don’t get a choice. Would you still be the same if you grew up outside of any religious influence and then when you had some understanding of life, would you still choose Christianity?

I know I wouldn’t.

That's a very good point.

If any of the Christians here had grown up in say, Pakistan or some other Islamic country there'd be a 99.99% chance of them being Muslims

The church has turned into a bunch of “nicer” Nazis/KKK/Communists. They want to control and change what doesn’t fit into their ideal of perfection. They want their own little perfect world with their little perfect people. F*ck off.

It must be noted, as you did, that this is what people do.

Now I have another question for all you Christians. Would you still believe in this and be faithful to your beliefs if you were raised as and agnostic or athesist? Would you still have found Jesus? Children end up like their parents, children don’t get a choice. Would you still be the same if you grew up outside of any religious influence and then when you had some understanding of life, would you still choose Christianity?

I was raised by two atheists. I am a Christian. I had a choice. And I feel I made the right one. And its never hurt me.

If any of the Christians here had grown up in say, Pakistan or some other Islamic country there'd be a 99.99% chance of them being Muslims

99.99%? I have a friend who's father is from Ethiopia. He was muslim, and was a child from a polygamous marriage. He is Christian, and was forced to leave the country because he became one.

Hmn, well, I have something to add about all this religion hating/hating from religions. If you want respect, you must give it. Everyone here saying "You're belief is wrong, your religion is wrong, **** YOU" are just as bad as "Homosexuality is wrong, your belief is wrong, **** YOU." There must be understanding, common ground, yes, you can voice your opinions and ****, but do you expect to get respect for what you believe if you cannot give any respect? I think this is the biggest problem of all. If you really want change, you should at least be able to see it from both sides, and both view points. Screaming out "You're wrong." is idiotic, coming from either side, even if you do not agree with what they say.

I was raised by two atheists. I am a Christian. I had a choice. And I feel I made the right one. And its never hurt me.

I'm assuming you love your mother...correct? I'm assuming, like most mothers, she probably cared for you and treated you very well....from your first day of school to the times you've been sick.

My question is; do you believe your mother is destined for hell?

Hmn, well, I have something to add about all this religion hating/hating from religions. If you want respect, you must give it. Everyone here saying "You're belief is wrong, your religion is wrong, **** YOU" are just as bad as "Homosexuality is wrong, your belief is wrong, **** YOU." There must be understanding, common ground, yes, you can voice your opinions and ****, but do you expect to get respect for what you believe if you cannot give any respect? I think this is the biggest problem of all. If you really want change, you should at least be able to see it from both sides, and both view points. Screaming out "You're wrong." is idiotic, coming from either side, even if you do not agree with what they say.


Good point...common ground is a good thing.

But when you're trying to have common ground with people who believe you should be dead (based on a book they believe without evidence) then what good is it to compromise?

If the mayor of your city said he wanted you to live on $2 a month and that your children are not allowed to attend public or private schools, would you say "screw him! I'm going to fight for my rights and make sure he's terminated from office!" or would you say "maybe we should come to a nice compromise with that gentlement and respect his beliefs."

Sorry Ben, Im the one with the bull**** ideals? lmao bro. You know nothing of my religion. Saying my church isnt fine with homosexuality.. Even though the reason I think gays can go to heaven and all that is because my preacher told me that she believed that gays went to heaven, as long as they were christian. You know nothing of my religion, and I think its funny how you think you do. At least Razz knows or has been a christian and knows my religion.

You know nothing of my religion, and I think its funny how you think you do. At least Razz knows or has been a christian and knows my religion.

For clarification I was born and raised a catholic by parents, a pursuit they failed.

(From my first post in this thread, top of page 6)

And yes I still go to church every sunday...why? I will never be sure. Are the catholic and christian religions the same? clarify for me.

Lets do yet more clarifying...


Now before I start let me say this, this is not based or aimed at the religious folks on this website, it is aimed at the radicals and their followers and anyone who believes this ****

Yes I realize that this statement in itself is hypocritical. "beleives this ****" and "bull**** ideals" were strong and should have been refraised. Sorry about that.

I don't like relegion. You do. Somehow I don't think this will change. I like debating but I also like not being a total ass. This or any religion related thread could go on for ever and no one would win.(or someone would start a war). I can get along fine with religious people as long as it's not forced on me in any way.(my parents force feeding me). It's easier to survive with more friends than enmies and religious arguments will never be worth it.

To conculed I'll quote Hostage Life (canadian punk band) And don't hate because I'm bringing music into this just read the lyrics -

Song: Hell Awaits Hostage Life


i've said it before and I'll say it again/
I would never trust a pregnant virgin and I wouldn't take one single text to be the truth because to believe I'd need to see a mountain of proof/
christ, and your imaginary friends will love me to the bitter end/
I'm sure when I die hell awaits me/
I don't spit or **** on anybody's faith until some judgmental **** gets up in my face and tells me I'm destined to burn because how I think is impure and he damns me to darkness because I don't see the light/
he swears that I'll suffer until the end of time and I will defend any human being's right to believe in anything even that which makes no sense to me but I will fight for control of what I hear and see and I'll deny any church pushing its rules on me/
my spirituality can't be organized but since you've set the boundaries and all the guidelines hell awaits me/
yes, I'm sure when I die hell awaits me but in that lake of fire I'll be fast asleep/
don't pray for me, pray you're right/
pray something's been listening at night/
two thousand years of guilt and war won't convince me that death will bring reward/
don't waste your breath on my damned soul/
reach for that hand that you can't hold/
don't waste your breath on me.

I'm assuming you love your mother...correct? I'm assuming, like most mothers, she probably cared for you and treated you very well....from your first day of school to the times you've been sick.

My question is; do you believe your mother is destined for hell?

Do I think my mother is choosing to not be with God? Yes, I do. Do I like it? No.

anyone who sees homosexuality as a sin, or as something that is wqrong with them, they are the ones destined for hell.
i dont give a damn what god says if it impacts someones life. god created us you say? prove it. we were created by evolution. let god show his face. send irrefutable proof to earth, in this time. until then, anyone against equality in all forms (even the pope) goes to their version of hell. when the equality loving god spurns a human, he becomes a false god, no better than what Moses's followers did when he received the ten commandments.

Hmn, well, I have something to add about all this religion hating/hating from religions. If you want respect, you must give it. Everyone here saying "You're belief is wrong, your religion is wrong, **** YOU" are just as bad as "Homosexuality is wrong, your belief is wrong, **** YOU." There must be understanding, common ground, yes, you can voice your opinions and ****, but do you expect to get respect for what you believe if you cannot give any respect? I think this is the biggest problem of all. If you really want change, you should at least be able to see it from both sides, and both view points. Screaming out "You're wrong." is idiotic, coming from either side, even if you do not agree with what they say.


Except we are not advocating discrimination against christians, they on the other hand want to discriminate against gays. I don't care if you believe in Jesus, Mohamed or the Flying Spaghetti Monster, I do care when you try to impose your religion on our government.

Except we are not advocating discrimination against christians, they on the other hand want to discriminate against gays. I don't care if you believe in Jesus, Mohamed or the Flying Spaghetti Monster, I do care when you try to impose your religion on our government.

Why do you say they? Is it all Christians? Of course not.

I believe homosexuals should have the same rights as heterosexuals. Marriage, obviously to me in the biblical sense, is not the same as it is to you. Society can bring homosexuals together, but they shouldn't expect it to be blessed by God.

Why do you say they? Is it all Christians? Of course not.

I believe homosexuals should have the same rights as heterosexuals. Marriage, obviously to me in the biblical sense, is not the same as it is to you. Society can bring homosexuals together, but they shouldn't expect it to be blessed by God.


I know that not all christians are against gay marriage, I was pointing out the difference in the two positions. Beyond that I am talking strictly about civil marriage, I don't care about religious marriage and I feel that religions should be free do as they will when it comes to who they will preform marriage ceremonies for. I do care that that marriage be open to any two consenting adults that are not already married to another person. I also wouldn't be against polygamy between consenting adults, but I think we would need serious reform of the current state of civil marriage to address the issues it that would result (like inheritance).

anyone who sees homosexuality as a sin, or as something that is wqrong with them, they are the ones destined for hell.
i dont give a damn what god says if it impacts someones life. god created us you say? prove it. we were created by evolution. let god show his face. send irrefutable proof to earth, in this time. until then, anyone against equality in all forms (even the pope) goes to their version of hell. when the equality loving god spurns a human, he becomes a false god, no better than what Moses's followers did when he received the ten commandments.
Nobody can prove that God, or any other higher power exists. But you also cannot prove that they DONT exist.

Explain to me how all of this came about. The earth, the solar system, the galaxy, the universe. The big bang? what created the big bang? what created the blankness before the thing that caused the big bang? what created all of that?

Trying to figure out how everything came about is like trying to figure out a new primary color. NOBODY KNOWS FOR A FACT HOW WE CAME ABOUT. It might not have been the christian god, or anything related. For all we know, the Flying Speghetti Monster created us. But you can not say that all of this came from nothing, for that is impossible.

^ Truth. But we will never know the truth until well the **** goes down or we go down. What if we're some great giant science experiment for someone to pass biology? What if worlds are built? (Hitcherhikers Guide to the Galaxy).

What if? It's ignorant to say some great force named "god" created earth but it's even more ignorant to say we came from nothing.

Just a quick point about this coming from "nothing" aspect. Let's try something, lets try to find some common ground on the universe itself. What do we know?

Universe: A complex "cosmos" that has been able to have us live in it and given us a planet (Earth) to sustain life.

OK, so we agree...right? The universe is VERY complex. This could not have come from nothing, or could it? Well, let's just for arguments sake agree that it COULD NOT have come from nothing because it's just, well, too complex.

Now, what can we say about God? If God exists, we can agree on these things.

God: INCREDIBLY complex. Think about it; for something to create such a cosmos and give it all the characteristics necessary it ONLY makes sense that this "God" must be very, very complex. Maybe, if not more than 1000x more complex than the Universe itself.


So we agree so far...right? But here's my point: doesn't it make sense to assume that something less complex (ie: something more simple) to be a logical explanation than something SO complex (such as God) to have started it all?

How could something so complex just exist? What theists are saying is

1) God
2) Universe - (too complex to happen by itself)
3) ....

but God is more complex is he not? So why not save ourselves a step and go with a simpler explanation (still complex, but much simpler than God) and assume the Universe was just there?


This is why evolution is a much, much better theory than "God did it." The Origin of Species is a GREAT book that explains how we evolved, it shows you how we became accustumed to the world around us, just like our fellow species.

People who say "No need to explain, God did it" is equivalent to a spectator at a David Copperfield event saying "it's a miracle, no need for other explanations"

It's an answer answer but incredibly illogical...

Nobody can prove that God, or any other higher power exists. But you also cannot prove that they DONT exist.

Explain to me how all of this came about. The earth, the solar system, the galaxy, the universe. The big bang? what created the big bang? what created the blankness before the thing that caused the big bang? what created all of that?

Trying to figure out how everything came about is like trying to figure out a new primary color. NOBODY KNOWS FOR A FACT HOW WE CAME ABOUT. It might not have been the christian god, or anything related. For all we know, the Flying Speghetti Monster created us. But you can not say that all of this came from nothing, for that is impossible.
i never said balls about universal creation, just human creation. as far as the universe goes i believe a massive force wave (such as the beginning of time) forced vibrations which materialized into matter.

^Then what created that massive force wave? What i'm trying to get across is that things cannot just create themselves.

To razz:

The universe cant have just been there. Somthing had to create it. The same can be said about God, Aphrodite, The Flying Spaghetti Monster, or any other deity you can think of. That is why i'm mainly agnostic now, because How if the universe cant have been "just there", how could God?

Evolution and all that jazz might have occured, but the concept of "It was all already there. It always has been. Then we evolved from a pile of speghetti" just makes absolutley NO sense.

(Yes, i am aware that we didnt evolve from a pile of speghetti. You get my point though).

^Then what created that massive force wave? What i'm trying to get across is that things cannot just create themselves.


beginning of time. like i said. or, to be more technical, a dimensional shift from an opposing reality clipped us, effectively jump starting time and creation.

To razz:

The universe cant have just been there. Somthing had to create it. The same can be said about God, Aphrodite, The Flying Spaghetti Monster, or any other deity you can think of. That is why i'm mainly agnostic now, because How if the universe cant have been "just there", how could God?

Exactly. People think that if the Universe is so complex and HAD TO be created then how could something much, much, much more complex (such as God) just have been there.

But the bigger question is why there is something rather than nothing?

^Then what created that massive force wave? What i'm trying to get across is that things cannot just create themselves.

To razz:

The universe cant have just been there. Somthing had to create it. The same can be said about God, Aphrodite, The Flying Spaghetti Monster, or any other deity you can think of. That is why i'm mainly agnostic now, because How if the universe cant have been "just there", how could God?

Evolution and all that jazz might have occured, but the concept of "It was all already there. It always has been. Then we evolved from a pile of speghetti" just makes absolutley NO sense.

(Yes, i am aware that we didnt evolve from a pile of speghetti. You get my point though).

I don't think it's necessary to question the complexities of creation to such an extent. Evolution may not be entirely explainable, but it can not really be refuted as such, especially by someone who is poorly informed about the Big Bang theory. Christianity on the other hand, can be refuted and therefore one may question the basis on which many beliefs stemming from it apply to the world.

I would like to note that those stating homosexuality does not belong with God are being very hypocritical. Firstly, homosexual churches exist, where the belief that "homosexuality is a sin" does not exist. Beliefs are personal, and as such, it would be unwise to claim their falsity.

I agree that opposing homosexual marriage in a church disapproving of homosexuality is fine. However, when those disapproving of homosexuality impede the rights of others, their beliefs hold no worth, only fact may be the basis of such things.

beginning of time. like i said. or, to be more technical, a dimensional shift from an opposing reality clipped us, effectively jump starting time and creation.

Well what created that opposing reality? We could go on forever with this, which is also what i'm trying to get across. There is a neverending chain of "somthing had to create this in order for this to be created to create this" blah blah blah... Its all too much for the human mind to comprehend.

Well what created that opposing reality? We could go on forever with this, which is also what i'm trying to get across. There is a neverending chain of "somthing had to create this in order for this to be created to create this" blah blah blah... Its all too much for the human mind to comprehend.
at least for now. as our race grows older our minds as well as our bodies will evolve.

Sorry to just butt in to this debate, but I don't feel like reading 7 pages, honestly. =/

Whether you want to admit it or not, marriage is not just a religious communion. It is a legal contract, with legal and financial benefits.

Bottom line: Denying homosexuals the right to marry is denying them legal equality, no matter how you look at it, and regardless of marriage's relationship with religion. Homosexuals are the only people in this country who are openly discriminated against legally.

With liberty and justice for all, or with liberty and justice for heterosexuals? It's wrong that the separation of church and state will never be a reality, simply because our government is traditionally Christian.

I don't think it's necessary to question the complexities of creation to such an extent. Evolution may not be entirely explainable, but it can not really be refuted as such, especially by someone who is poorly informed about the Big Bang theory. Christianity on the other hand, can be refuted and therefore one may question the basis on which many beliefs stemming from it apply to the world.

I would like to note that those stating homosexuality does not belong with God are being very hypocritical. Firstly, homosexual churches exist, where the belief that "homosexuality is a sin" does not exist. Beliefs are personal, and as such, it would be unwise to claim their falsity.

It is completely possible for a homosexual church to exist. However, I don't think it can be called a church that follows the Bible. They can believe in Jesus as messiah, but they must admit they are not teaching the whole teachings of the Bible. In other words, they are cherry-picking.

I'm not saying any belief is false, but I am saying that the belief that homosexuality is not a sin is not a biblical view, and shouldn't be called as such.

^How do you know? Have you been in every one of those churches? Just because they are gay dosent mean they arent teaching the whole thing.

They are very aware that their hormones that got mixed up when they were being created is against God's will. Just because they are gay dosent mean they scratched it out of the bible or somthing.

I'm sorry, but that statement was just stupid.

^How do you know? Have you been in every one of those churches? Just because they are gay dosent mean they arent teaching the whole thing.

They are very aware that their hormones that got mixed up when they were being created is against God's will. Just because they are gay dosent mean they scratched it out of the bible or somthing.

I'm sorry, but that statement was just stupid.

Presto mentioned churches that do not believe in homosexuality as a sin. Since he said sin, I assumed they were Christian churches. If they are teaching homosexuality as not sin, they are not teaching the whole Bible. There is only one view of homosexuality with the Bible.

Just so we don't get confused here, I am not saying homosexuals shouldn't go to church. I have heard stories of people being kicked out because they were this way. I would welcome them to church everytime, because in all honesty, as a Christian, I think that's where they should be.

Presto mentioned churches that do not believe in homosexuality as a sin. Since he said sin, I assumed they were Christian churches. If they are teaching homosexuality as not sin, they are not teaching the whole Bible. There is only one view of homosexuality with the Bible.
if thats true then the church i go to isn't teaching the whole bible....well i guess i better go and find a different church then

Actually Zero is right. If you go to a Church that says homosexuality is right then what they're doing is cherry-picking the verses they do like.


As a matter of fact, if you go to a Church where women are allowed to talk then it's not really a "true Christian" Church either, as clearly stated in the book of Timothy:

1 Timothy 2:11-12
11Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

as well as:

1 Corinthians 14:34-35
34Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.

35And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.


Keep that in mind the next time you go to your "church"

http://www.steps2life.org/library/miscellaneous/women_speaking_church.htm

http://www.steps2life.org/library/miscellaneous/women_speaking_church.htm

I honestly don't know what's funnier, watching The Colbert Report or reading an article on the internet by Christians trying to twist and turn verses to suit somethign moral.

Please tell me, what do you think the author of that article was saying? That Paul didn't really mean to say that, he was just giving women a way to be orderly and kind?

Wow, where is the verse that tells men the same thing? Oh wait, it isn't there. It's funny how the word "women" is always used in conjunction with people who are lesser than the man. It's never the women above the men (u