Anyone one else here notice that most of us were forced into church at a young age and taught that we would die and burn eternally if we did not submit?

For generations since the first the children of the creators of christanity have been forced into christianity. Taught that we would have eternal pain if we did not so out of fear we submitted...Now in this generation where religionis being challenged the people who dont submit to religion are being punished for it by others and even threatened, Evangelatists (sp?) have called it a war between not christians and christains. Now were being called the doomed generation. I call bull****.

to be hounest dopey not read all of that.
however he still live by the moto
"what god did your parents give you?"

so true.

without what your parents said you wouldnt know about god and all tha ****.brainwash your children, to make them saints

you poisoned all your children, to camoflauge your scars

my parents pushed hard for me to go to church with a church community and program i didn't like. had it been a different group, i probably would have enjoyed it, but the reality was that I hated it, which is what pushed me towards rebellion and eventually questioning and choosing Atheism.

True.
It hurts me to see my sisters being forced into the same basket of lies that I was in at one time..

Their minds are still highly impressionable..
So each day when I see them at church, making little crosses that say "faith" on them, I feel horrible, because I know that my mom won't let me show them the facts..
She won't let me show my sisters all of the disproving evidence that can knock christian theory out of the water..

I just wish they were allowed to make their own choice.
They don't need to be forced into a religion.

They're smarter than that. Especially my 11 year old sister. She's too smart to be taught Christianity, and I can see, I think, that she sees the made-up parts of it, and might... *see the light*.

I am a proud member of the "doomed generation."

Every religion needs some way to scare people into becoming that religion. For most modern religions, it's "hell". To be honest, who cares? If those kids want to see the truth when they get older, they will. If they want to live under the delusion of religion, then fine. Religions usually do good in the world.

Religions usually do good in the world.

Oh totally, if you consider wars to be good.

Nearly every war has been started over a religion, or a belief of some kind.

Oh totally, if you consider wars to be good.

Nearly every war has been started over a religion, or a belief of some kind.

Yay! ignorance!

People will always want to kill each other. It's human nature. To even think that if religion was suddenly removed from the world that there wouldn't be war anymore is foolish.

World War 1-Not started by religion

World War 2-Not started by religion(although religion was a crucial part of the holocaust, it was not the cause. Fascism and military expansionism was)

Korean War-Not started by religion

The Vietnam War-Not started by religion

People can justify going to war with religion, but it's usually based off of some kind of previous problem.

Religion can give people hope, a better life, and gives an excuse for us stupid Americans to actually do something good(charity, ect). It is mostly good.

"Give me a child for the first 7 years and I'll give you the man"
- Jesuits

You guys act as though it is a bad thing to tell these kids these things. The parents see it as a great thing for their child to grow up and develop a relationship with God. Its not brainwashing, its doing what they think the best for their kids. Do you think a parent would actually tell their kid something they honestly did not believe ( this is if they are good parents of course ). Truthfully, what if my God is real? I believe God is, so what if they are? Maybe the parents are doing a great and wonderful thing by bringing their kids up this way. The parents arent trying to do harm to their child, and it seems that is kind of what some of you are implying, they are trying to do what they think is best, and have their kid develop a relationship with God.

^Because children at a young age are very impressionable and could end up thinking of what they were told at a young as fact instead of developing their own opinion. It's also like you said "it's doing what they think the best for their kids." I'm sure a KKK member or neo-Nazi thinks that teaching their children to hate minorities is what's right and best for them. Is it really though?

Please do not compare my religion to neo- nazis. You are comparing something that is good, when used in the right way, to something that is never good at all. Christianity also teaches these kids good morals in life, and other things. Not to say they wouldn't have good morals not growing up in a non christian family, but I think you get what I'm saying. Think of it in a Christian point of view, does it look bad then? No. Being a Christian never harmed anyone unless they were taught the wrong way. If you are brought up to be a respectful and open minded Christian, then I see no problem with bringing a kid up in a Christian household. As I said before, think of it in a Christian point of view, as if there is a God, does it make sense now?

I wasn't comparing Christianity and Nazism but rather making the point that what people think is right is not always what really is right. Sure, some Christians may bring up to respectful and open-minded but most likely there are others that do just the opposite.

As I said before, think of it in a Christian point of view, as if there is a God, does it make sense now?
Think of it from the neo-Nazis point of view, they really think what they are teaching is right. Just because you're teaching a good thing doesn't mean the way you go about teaching it is good.

Please do not compare my religion to neo- nazis. You are comparing something that is good, when used in the right way, to something that is never good at all. Christianity also teaches these kids good morals in life, and other things. Not to say they wouldn't have good morals not growing up in a non christian family, but I think you get what I'm saying. Think of it in a Christian point of view, does it look bad then? No. Being a Christian never harmed anyone unless they were taught the wrong way. If you are brought up to be a respectful and open minded Christian, then I see no problem with bringing a kid up in a Christian household. As I said before, think of it in a Christian point of view, as if there is a God, does it make sense now?

but neo nazism is good to the neo nazis, just like christanity is bad to the islam radicals and the islam radicals are bad to us because there "terrorists:, but only people trying to protect their countries.

Of course, I get what you are saying with the Nazism v. Christianity thing, but what I'm saying is, if the kid is brought up to be respectful and open minded, what exactly is the problem with bringing them up that way? I see no harm. If a child is brought up to think they are better then anyone who isn't a Christian, then thats not right at all. If a child is brought up to be respectful and open minded, then there is no harm. Of course both people think it is right because that is their mindset, but Christianity is not harmful to anyone IF TAUGHT IN THE RIGHT WAY, and Nazism can be very harmful, and has no good aspects to it.

Please do not compare my religion to neo- nazis. You are comparing something that is good, when used in the right way, to something that is never good at all. Christianity also teaches these kids good morals in life, and other things. Not to say they wouldn't have good morals not growing up in a non christian family, but I think you get what I'm saying. Think of it in a Christian point of view, does it look bad then? No. Being a Christian never harmed anyone unless they were taught the wrong way. If you are brought up to be a respectful and open minded Christian, then I see no problem with bringing a kid up in a Christian household. As I said before, think of it in a Christian point of view, as if there is a God, does it make sense now?

Think of it as the jews were rats (as in a certain nazi propaganda film) that need to be killed to rid the world of evil, as if jews are evil (im not saying they are just stating counter opinion).

My point is, the only reason why you think christianity is good is because your a christain. Your religion has killed more people then Nazism ever will.

Does that make sense now?
Merging doublepost
Of course, I get what you are saying with the Nazism v. Christianity thing, but what I'm saying is, if the kid is brought up to be respectful and open minded, what exactly is the problem with bringing them up that way? I see no harm. If a child is brought up to think they are better then anyone who isn't a Christian, then thats not right at all. If a child is brought up to be respectful and open minded, then there is no harm. Of course both people think it is right because that is their mindset, but Christianity is not harmful to anyone IF TAUGHT IN THE RIGHT WAY, and Nazism can be very harmful, and has no good aspects to it.

so making the world a pure place for hot blonde hair and blue eyed chicks isnt good?
(im not a neo nazi just trying to counter you)

Of course, I get what you are saying with the Nazism v. Christianity thing, but what I'm saying is, if the kid is brought up to be respectful and open minded, what exactly is the problem with bringing them up that way? I see no harm. If a child is brought up to think they are better then anyone who isn't a Christian, then thats not right at all. If a child is brought up to be respectful and open minded, then there is no harm. Of course both people think it is right because that is their mindset, but Christianity is not harmful to anyone IF TAUGHT IN THE RIGHT WAY, and Nazism can be very harmful, and has no good aspects to it.

Because you're holding a double standard, if you were to see the neo-Nazi teaching their 5 year old to hate black people you would say that's not right the child doesn't know better to not accept every word their parent tells them. If you were to see a Christian parent teaching their 5 year old child Christianity as if it was fact you wouldn't say anything. Both are taking advantage of the impressionability of the child but you only look down on the neo-Nazi for doing it because you don't like their message. You could teach the child to be respectful and open minded without Christianity so why does it need to be taught too?

Young children are very impressionable, it's why basic education takes place at a young age.

Religion is a fairytale, all to make the world a better place it would seem.
Some of the morals of some religions, if applied would make the world a better place.
Telling everybody there is a magical man in the sky does not.

At this young and impressionable age, they are likely to beleive anything, be it God, Santa Claus, or even the tooth fairy.
The reason most of the world still beleives in one religion or t'other is because their God(s) have/has the upper hand, they don't have to appear, ever, they're quite content being invisible and undetectable. Just like, well, nothing!

I beleive that in this day and age, the human race should relive itself of this shroud of ignorance we have been living under for so long.
This starts with letting children grow up, uninfluenced by religeon, and making their own judgement on the world and who if anyone is invisibly doing nothing, nowhere.

I love how no one has brought up the fact that evolution is being taught in most public schools, as a fact.

^ Theories are higher in terms of science than facts, since facts are everywhere.

And why not believe in the theory of evolution? What exactly don't you believe? Do you not believe it because of the word 'theory' - I mean, surely you believe in the theory of thermodynamics do you not?

^ Theories are higher in terms of science than facts, since facts are everywhere.

And why not believe in the theory of evolution? What exactly don't you believe? Do you not believe it because of the word 'theory' - I mean, surely you believe in the theory of thermodynamics do you not?

I would prefer they teach the only facts of evolution - adaptation, survival of the fittest. Let them find out their own theories on creation, rather than having someones theories forced down their throats. Effectively brainwashing our generation. You'd say the same if schools taught God was real.

Let's not get off topic with thermodynamics. razz I know you'd love to sit and chat with me all day, but it ain't happening buddy.

I would prefer they teach the only facts of evolution - adaptation, survival of the fittest. Let them find out their own theories on creation, rather than having someones theories forced down their throats. Effectively brainwashing our generation. You'd say the same if schools taught God was real.

Let's not get off topic with thermodynamics. razz I know you'd love to sit and chat with me all day, but it ain't happening buddy.

Whoa whoa whoa? Theory of creation? hahahahaha

Listen, science is taught in a science class...evolution is a science. Do you understand how incredibly exhausting it must be for a theory to survive for over 150 years as the theory of evolution has?

Creationism is NOT a science, it's based on ink and paper...nothing more. If there was a class dedicating to teaching Dr. Seuss, the 3 little pigs, and snow white....then creationism would fit perfectly into it.

You know nothing of evolution, absolutely nothing....based on an ape? Go read a book, no...not the Bible, a real book that's based on facts....there are even books written by women too, you know, something the Bible has nothing of...

I'm gonna say this again. THEY HAVE BONES, of our ancestors, which showed that the skull changed shape and such, evolutionnnnn.

I love how I'm too lazy to go into detail.

Most people find baptisms or a group of children singing "jesus loves me" cute. I find it disheartening, and quite frankly, evil.

I am a proud member of the "doomed generation."

Every religion needs some way to scare people into becoming that religion. For most modern religions, it's "hell". To be honest, who cares? If those kids want to see the truth when they get older, they will. If they want to live under the delusion of religion, then fine. Religions usually do good in the world.

{rf)



yeah right.

I'm forced to go at chrismas:(not only that I've never beleived in god but it's absolute crap. It's so boring I would rather go to school for a day than going to church for anh hour. Yeah it's that bad!

I would prefer they teach the only facts of evolution - adaptation, survival of the fittest. Let them find out their own theories on creation, rather than having someones theories forced down their throats. Effectively brainwashing our generation. You'd say the same if schools taught God was real.

Let's not get off topic with thermodynamics. razz I know you'd love to sit and chat with me all day, but it ain't happening buddy.
You feel the same way about your religion, right? Your not going to force your beleifs onto your children and make them be christians (Like most christian parents do), are you?

^ Z28 has officially been /owned

It is unfathomable to believe that he'd be reading the Qu'ran, along side the Bible and every other holy scripture to his children...

You feel the same way about your religion, right? Your not going to force your beleifs onto your children and make them be christians (Like most christian parents do), are you?

I think you're confusing "forcing your religion" on a child with raising a child in Christian values (which actually does go far in todays society anyway). If I had children, I would raise them in Christian values, including not using God's name in vain, and all other Christian things involving God (with emphasis on what Christmas/Easter is REALLY about).

However, when they came of mature age, they would eventually have to choose. This is what Jesus wanted anyway.

I think you're confusing "forcing your religion" on a child with raising a child in Christian values (which actually does go far in todays society anyway). If I had children, I would raise them in Christian values, including not using God's name in vain, and all other Christian things involving God (with emphasis on what Christmas/Easter is REALLY about).

However, when they came of mature age, they would eventually have to choose. This is what Jesus wanted anyway.

You dont need to use christian values to raise your children to be good.

Look at LaVeyans Satansim. The "commandments" are just as good as christianity. if not better. One of the commands are not to harm little children. The Ten Commandments never go into detail like that. Thous shalot not... thats it.

^^Nowhere in my post did I say Christian values are necassary. I said I would raise my children in Christian values.

Satanism is able to get you locked up. The commandments says if someone bothers you, tell them to leave, and if they don't, destroy them.

I'm forced to go at chrismas:(not only that I've never beleived in god but it's absolute crap. It's so boring I would rather go to school for a day than going to church for anh hour. Yeah it's that bad!

lol then you shouldn't get **** for xmas lmao....im not sure if i believe in God but i do believe in a higher power....and if you know the TRUE TRUE meaning of xmas, then you get to have presents anyways lolol....but if you dont.....



































Shame On You.
I think you're confusing "forcing your religion" on a child with raising a child in Christian values (which actually does go far in todays society anyway). If I had children, I would raise them in Christian values, including not using God's name in vain, and all other Christian things involving God (with emphasis on what Christmas/Easter is REALLY about).

However, when they came of mature age, they would eventually have to choose. This is what Jesus wanted anyway.

do you honestly know what christmas is REALLY about?? it has nothing to do with God or Jesus Christ

"Destroy them?" How neighborly!

What exactly are "Christian values?" The Ten Commandments, be sure to hate fags, don't abort pregnancies, support the troops, don't spank the monkey, an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, turn the other cheek, believers get priority prayer answering and exemption from eternal damnation, and no matter how illogical or completely impossible according to the laws of science believe everything in the Bible?

"Destroy them?" How neighborly!

What exactly are "Christian values?" The Ten Commandments, be sure to hate fags, don't abort pregnancies, support the troops, don't spank the monkey, an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, turn the other cheek, believers get priority prayer answering and exemption from eternal damnation, and no matter how illogical or completely impossible according to the laws of science believe everything in the Bible?

I think you confused the ten commandments with the commandments in Satanism. The Satanic Bible says the thing about destroying the neighbor.

First of all, I carry myself with Christian values, and I don't hate anybody.

If you follow Christian values you wont get pregnant until your married.

Why should you not support the troops? They fight for you. You don't have to support the government.

Though I am against masturbation, I know it is very hard for people. But I was talking about values that you openly show to other people.

I know a certain individual on this forum who is an unbeliever and asked God to do something for him. It was done a few days later.

As far as science is concerned, that's where they have to choose.

I think you confused the ten commandments with the commandments in Satanism. The Satanic Bible says the thing about destroying the neighbor.


I guess I did! Funny how I could make that error, I guess it's all that eye for an eye stuff and burning non-believers in eternal damnation stuff that led to my confusion.


First of all, I carry myself with Christian values, and I don't hate anybody.

Right, you just damn them to hell forever unless they beg for forgiveness and join your club!


If you follow Christian values you wont get pregnant until your married.


Or, at least get married before the final trimester! Mommy, why are there only six months between my birthday and your anniversary? :)


Why should you not support the troops? They fight for you. You don't have to support the government.

...and the main way you do this is with those fancy ribbon magnets, and by voting Republican! After all, Republicans better represent Christian values.


Though I am against masturbation, I know it is very hard for people. But I was talking about values that you openly show to other people.

"Very hard for people..." LMAO


I know a certain individual on this forum who is an unbeliever and asked God to do something for him. It was done a few days later.

It's a miracle! Or is it a non-sequitur? I can't decide.


As far as science is concerned, that's where they have to choose.

...and boy is it ever a tough choice as Christians present it! Believe this here ghost story, or burn in hell. Your choice, sinner.

Someone has fallen into the razz style of debating.

All I can say is look at the Christian view of God 'sending' people to hell, and not just your own.

Republicans better represent Christian values? I didn't know that.

Yes it is very hard for people...

I think you should talk to Flatlandbran about the prayer thing. Calling it a logical fallacy is an easy way out.

Someone has fallen into the razz style of debating.


What style is that? Winning? I'll admit I've been very flippant here, but I was trying to prove a point.


All I can say is look at the Christian view of God 'sending' people to hell, and not just your own.

The main point I've been trying to make is that the exclusivity of Christianity is in fact the greatest turnoff about it, from my perspective. It's extraordinarily condescending to believe that the Christian way is the only way, and it is guaranteed to offend non-Christians. Christians believe their God damns all people to an eternity of hell for not falling lockstep with their morals, and even their bias against gays.


Republicans better represent Christian values? I didn't know that.

Well, that's how the vast majority of y'all vote.


Yes it is very hard for people...


It would have been better worded to say, "difficult." It's difficult because it's a natural impulse and something which relieves stress.


I think you should talk to Flatlandbran about the prayer thing. Calling it a logical fallacy is an easy way out.

Flatlandbran's cool, but he's not going to talk me out of understanding that just because a person prays for something and it happens that prayer caused the desired effect to happen. It's not the easy way out, it just is what it is: a non-sequitur. There is no evidence whatsoever that prayer influences desired results. None. Nada. Zip. It doesn't happen.

I think you're confusing "forcing your religion" on a child with raising a child in Christian values (which actually does go far in todays society anyway). If I had children, I would raise them in Christian values, including not using God's name in vain, and all other Christian things involving God (with emphasis on what Christmas/Easter is REALLY about).

However, when they came of mature age, they would eventually have to choose. This is what Jesus wanted anyway.
I have no problem raising children off of christian values, that is what I'd probably do also if I for some strange reason have a kid. (I don't plan on having any, though). Christian values are great values, and I've noticed most of the TRUE christians are wonderful people.

But, I'm talking about making the children feel like they have to be christians, which I have noticed, is what happens to a great number of children. I, for example, am still pretty afraid of telling my parents I'm not a christian, I still say that I am around them. (And I havent' been since early-summer 2007). After I saw how much they freaked out just because I asked if I could stop going to church (Hadn't even said anything about me not beleiving in God), I realized just how deep in **** I'd be if I told them the truth.

And I know quite a few other kids in the same situation as me.

Basically, It is a horrible feeling to not even be able to tell your parents what they beleive in, in fear of getting in trouble, and even shunned by them. If my parents find out I'm not a christian, they probably would never talk to/treat me the same again.

My point was, don't make your kids be christians. Raise them on the values, that's great. I have no problem with that. But, I hate a HUGE problem when kids feel that they have to be part of their parents religion.

I have no problem raising children off of christian values, that is what I'd probably do also if I for some strange reason have a kid. (I don't plan on having any, though). Christian values are great values, and I've noticed most of the TRUE christians are wonderful people.

But, I'm talking about making the children feel like they have to be christians, which I have noticed, is what happens to a great number of children. I, for example, am still pretty afraid of telling my parents I'm not a christian, I still say that I am around them. (And I havent' been since early-summer 2007). After I saw how much they freaked out just because I asked if I could stop going to church (Hadn't even said anything about me not beleiving in God), I realized just how deep in **** I'd be if I told them the truth.

And I know quite a few other kids in the same situation as me.

Basically, It is a horrible feeling to not even be able to tell your parents what they beleive in, in fear of getting in trouble, and even shunned by them. If my parents find out I'm not a christian, they probably would never talk to/treat me the same again.

My point was, don't make your kids be christians. Raise them on the values, that's great. I have no problem with that. But, I hate a HUGE problem when kids feel that they have to be part of their parents religion.

I think you're mistaking Christianity for goodness here. You don't have to raise your children on the Christian values to raise them on good values. Christianity, just like any religion, doesn't have the monopoly on good morals.

^Agreed right there, don't raise them on any religion but rather let them make a decision on their own when they are old enough to develop their own opinions and make the decision themselves. It's not just religion I have a problem with either, I remember seeing an article in the paper about an Obama support rally or something and the picture they had above the article was one of a parent's 5 year old holding a support Obama sign and that really just made me mad. It's not that I dislike Obama personally I would vote for him if I could but the fact that the parents are forcing their political opinions on the kid at such a young age. I doubt the kid even fully knew who Obama was anyways. I say raise your children on universally good morals and let them make their own opinions.

The main point I've been trying to make is that the exclusivity of Christianity is in fact the greatest turnoff about it, from my perspective. It's extraordinarily condescending to believe that the Christian way is the only way, and it is guaranteed to offend non-Christians. Christians believe their God damns all people to an eternity of hell for not falling lockstep with their morals, and even their bias against gays.

That's not what we believe.


Well, that's how the vast majority of y'all vote.

Popularity doesn't prove anything.


It would have been better worded to say, "difficult." It's difficult because it's a natural impulse and something which relieves stress.

I should have included "no pun intended."


Flatlandbran's cool, but he's not going to talk me out of understanding that just because a person prays for something and it happens that prayer caused the desired effect to happen. It's not the easy way out, it just is what it is: a non-sequitur. There is no evidence whatsoever that prayer influences desired results. None. Nada. Zip. It doesn't happen.

I guess that's the difference between unbelievers and Christians. I can see what you mean by it does not follow, but it's happened to me enough times with a few out of chance incidents that I don't see it that way.

The problem with Christian values, at least in terms of praying to God is it's a no lose situation for them, they can never be proven wrong.

When something does happen, ie:

I know a certain individual on this forum who is an unbeliever and asked God to do something for him. It was done a few days later.

It must've been God! When it doesn't, it was God's will....the double standards are amazing and really, no matter how you present your argument against, you can't win...

In regards to Christian values, what exactly are those anyway? If I was a Christian I'd teach my child not to kill, or steal, or bear false witness because it's the right thing to do....not because they're "Christian". I mean, Tyler says he's going to raise them in Christian values but that also includes hating homosexuals and burning in hell for apostasy....

Maybe people may "value" that, I sure dont...

That's not what we believe.

Are you saying you don't believe sin is punishable by being sent to hell? Accept the Christian way, accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior, or burn in hell. This is exactly what you believe.


I guess that's the difference between unbelievers and Christians. I can see what you mean by it does not follow, but it's happened to me enough times with a few out of chance incidents that I don't see it that way.

The real difference is believers such as yourself see the world the way you want to see it and not the way it is. When it doesn't work out in your favor, you say it wasn't God's will. When it does, it was God's will, prayers answered! Amazing win/win philosophy!

In regards to Christian values, what exactly are those anyway? If I was a Christian I'd teach my child not to kill, or steal, or bear false witness because it's the right thing to do....not because they're "Christian". I mean, Tyler says he's going to raise them in Christian values but that also includes hating homosexuals and burning in hell for apostasy....

No, no it does not. Christian values include, but are not limited to: don't take God's name in vain, turn the other cheek, etc.

Are you saying you don't believe sin is punishable by being sent to hell? Accept the Christian way, accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior, or burn in hell. This is exactly what you believe.

No, that is not what I am saying.

Honestly though, what is it with people telling me what I believe.

And to that I'm saying the fact that Christianity attempts to force on others its definition of sin, making itself the final authority on who burns in hell and who doesn't, demanding that others fulfill its membership requirements to join its exclusive club or else, is what is condescending and ultimately offensive to non-Christians. Christians love to act as if they are doing someone a favor when they make this demand to join or face eternal damnation.

If some Christian makes a 'demand' for someone to join his 'club' then you should not judge all Christians by this one, because he is not doing what Jesus says.

Christianity in itself does not force anyone. It does not call for force. It is the people who force. Whereas Muhammad says 'submit,' Jesus says 'choose'.

If some Christian makes a 'demand' for someone to join his 'club' then you should not judge all Christians by this one, because he is not doing what Jesus says.

Christianity in itself does not force anyone. It does not call for force. It is the people who force. Whereas Muhammad says 'submit,' Jesus says 'choose'.

Ah, but to paraphrase doesn't the Bible teach you that there is only one way to God, through Jesus Christ, and without going that one way a person goes straight to hell? The recruiting is built into the religion. Even without doing it actively, the exclusive club of Christianity both judges others and demands that everyone follow.

So, let's take me for an example, just to clarify.

1. I do not accept Jesus Christ as my personal savior, because the concept of such a thing makes no logical sense to me whatsoever. I don't require saving or rescue, I'm OK. I'll call on someone living for help, if necessary. When I'm dead, I won't be thinking any more.
2. I think the supernatural events in the bible are fiction. Good stories, but they didn't happen.
3. I don't think there's anything wrong with masturbation or sex outside wedlock.
4. I try to be a good, loving, honest person. Sometimes I'm a little sarcastic, but for the most part I don't hurt others or myself. I love my family and friends and myself. I try to help other people along the way and be kind and considerate.
5. Gay people have always existed, since the beginning of humankind, and I have no problem with them whatsoever nor do I expect them to change to fit my tastes.

Am I going to hell in your opinion?

No, no it does not.

So you don't burn in hell for apostasy? Is that what you're saying?

If that's the case then you obviously know nothing of Christianity.

Honestly though, what is it with people telling me what I believe.

Because it's all written here...

http://bibledude.net/img/bible.jpg

1. I do not accept Jesus Christ as my personal savior,

It's not what I say it's what the Bible says. Why ask me if I believe something if it's obviously spelled out in the Bible.

So you don't burn in hell for apostasy? Is that what you're saying?

If that's the case then you obviously know nothing of Christianity.

No, that is not what I am saying.

It's not what I say it's what the Bible says. Why ask me if I believe something if it's obviously spelled out in the Bible.


To prove this:

The recruiting is built into the religion. Even without doing it actively, the exclusive club of Christianity both judges others and demands that everyone follow.

And you do believe it. You judge me for not seeing things the Christian way, for not accepting that the Bible is this unquestionable document of true events and inalterable standards. You are complicit in the judgment and the demands. It might not be hate, but it sure is harsh and you agree with it. To hell with me, by the standards you accept.

To prove this:



And you do believe it. You judge me for not seeing things the Christian way, for not accepting that the Bible is this unquestionable document of true events and inalterable standards. You are complicit in the judgment and the demands. It might not be hate, but it sure is harsh and you agree with it. To hell with me, by the standards you accept.

You're view is skewed. Do not say what I do and do not do, you don't know me. The Bible also says judging is up to God, I have no part in judging you. Don't ever say I do.

If it might not be hate, then why say it is hate?

Your last sentence is out in the blue yonder of what Christians believe. I recommend sitting with a pastor. It seems no matter what I say, you continue thinking about something you say that I believe.

This is my last reply to this, because I am tired of being told what I believe. I don't see why an atheist would get offended at what I believe, whilst I do not get offended that a humanist would believe I came from a monkey.

You're view is skewed. Do not say what I do and do not do, you don't know me. The Bible also says judging is up to God, I have no part in judging you. Don't ever say I do.

So God does the judging, and you just agree with it, that's all.


If it might not be hate, then why say it is hate?

It's sure close to hate, and sure enables hate.


Your last sentence is out in the blue yonder of what Christians believe. I recommend sitting with a pastor. It seems no matter what I say, you continue thinking about something you say that I believe.


I'm describing a certain aspect of Christianity, and you are a Christian.


This is my last reply to this, because I am tired of being told what I believe. I don't see why an atheist would get offended at what I believe, whilst I do not get offended that a humanist would believe I came from a monkey.

...evolution makes no such claim, and would in fact only attribute you to your parents.

I find it funny when the creationists try to demean evolution by saying "Whatcha think I must've come from da apes? You crazy!"

No morons, we came from an omniscient magical man who decided to reincarnate himself into a human to forgive us for sins that were committed by two noobs when they didn't know their head from their ass

To be fair to our friend Tyler, razz--he knows that about evolution and his point is that my understanding of the Bible is similarly flawed to that misperception of evolution.

I think you're mistaking Christianity for goodness here. You don't have to raise your children on the Christian values to raise them on good values. Christianity, just like any religion, doesn't have the monopoly on good morals.
Silly Aymeric, you should know by know I'm not that stupid. :icon_bigg

I was simply saying Christian values are good values, and I don't have anything against somebody raising their children on those values. But when they make the child feel they have to be a christian and beleive in God and all that jazz, that's when I have a problem.

:)

Yeah, im pretty much still into my religion seeing as my grandma forced it unto me at a young age. I was young and foolish and fell for anything anyone would tell me. I would consider myself an Achiest at this moment but Im not real sure

I made it but i had to defibulate myself a few times... Jeeze.

Christianity in itself does not force anyone. It does not call for force. It is the people who force. Whereas Muhammad says 'submit,' Jesus says 'choose'.
First of all, I've read some of the kuran (it's VERY long) and it's one of the most sensible book I've ever read. i've got into a long discussion with a muslim immigrant fellow online, and it was an amazing conversation.
Mu only question is "why is it that the most sensible and kind ways end up with the most brutality and anger?"

Also, there was something about supporting the ****ing troops. The US is the most hated and feared nation in the entire world, and it's enough to get this ****ing Canucks raging.
I don't know much about ww1, beyond it was over money.
ww2, the US didn't fight until the Japanese bombed them, though i guess EVENTUALLY helped take back Stalingrad (Lenin = hero, Stalin = zero, ask, don't spew)... still, it was with no noble intentions, just retaliation at a ridiculous scale.
Korea: Don't know much.
Vietnam?! VIETNAM?! That was a horrible bloodbath with a pure intention to fight communism, not anything to do with previous attack! Started by French, but the US did all the fighting, long after the French left.
Desert Storm: Oil
War against Terror: Even if you don't believe in the overwhelming evidence of bombs being placed in the basements of the building with a skill of a perfect demolition artist, or that they were of power to make the plane irrelevant, OR that one building leveled without ever having been touched by plane or rubble...
Well, this war is over ~2,000 deaths in the trade towers. the offical AMERICAN deaths are 29,000+. The Iraq civilian body count is 83,000 to 91,000.
Enjoy ur country's horrible war crimes.

I will not go into religion right now... would be way too much tonight

Most children, especially in Christianity are not scared into believing or disbelieving. They are simply guided by their parents, as they should be. Parents teach their children the morals and principles that they believe will be best for their children. Whether that be Christianity or Wicca, that is what happens. By the time they are teens and really separate themselves from the identities of parents, the children will go on spiritual quest and seek their own religion.

Anyone one else here notice that most of us were forced into church at a young age and taught that we would die and burn eternally if we did not submit?

For generations since the first the children of the creators of christanity have been forced into christianity. Taught that we would have eternal pain if we did not so out of fear we submitted...Now in this generation where religionis being challenged the people who dont submit to religion are being punished for it by others and even threatened, Evangelatists (sp?) have called it a war between not christians and christains. Now were being called the doomed generation. I call bull****.

Most children, especially in Christianity are not scared into believing or disbelieving. They are simply guided by their parents, as they should be. Parents teach their children the morals and principles that they believe will be best for their children. Whether that be Christianity or Wicca, that is what happens. By the time they are teens and really separate themselves from the identities of parents, the children will go on spiritual quest and seek their own religion.

I have never, ever, heard of a parent in any church I've been in giving their young child a CHOICE to not be there. They MAKE them go and tell them they'll burn in hell otherwise. I was always forced to go until I was 18 myself. Children have no choice and probably never will. "Guided" by means of telling them to get dressed up, get in the car, shut up and be quiet and listen to the man in the front of the room that is yelling at everyone (or speaking in monotone or a language you don't even know - just pick your favourite sect out and go I guess, I've been to dozens of churches of various sects). Whatever you tell a little child, they are going to believe you if they trust you (as they would if you are their parents). Just like Santa Clause, Easter Bunny, etc. kids TRULY believe. The difference in those ideas is that eventually they are shown otherwise....

First of all, I've read some of the kuran (it's VERY long) and it's one of the most sensible book I've ever read. i've got into a long discussion with a muslim immigrant fellow online, and it was an amazing conversation.
Mu only question is "why is it that the most sensible and kind ways end up with the most brutality and anger?"

I agree that Muslims can be very kind (from who i've met, I have a close friend at school and she is Muslim). However, you can't ignore the Koran when it says not to take Jews or Christians as your friend and such, but whether or not these are in the wrong context has never been attempted to be explained to me. I can pull out my Koran and find these verses if you want.

Also, there was something about supporting the ****ing troops. The US is the most hated and feared nation in the entire world, and it's enough to get this ****ing Canucks raging.
I don't know much about ww1, beyond it was over money.
ww2, the US didn't fight until the Japanese bombed them, though i guess EVENTUALLY helped take back Stalingrad (Lenin = hero, Stalin = zero, ask, don't spew)... still, it was with no noble intentions, just retaliation at a ridiculous scale.
Korea: Don't know much.
Vietnam?! VIETNAM?! That was a horrible bloodbath with a pure intention to fight communism, not anything to do with previous attack! Started by French, but the US did all the fighting, long after the French left.
Desert Storm: Oil
War against Terror: Even if you don't believe in the overwhelming evidence of bombs being placed in the basements of the building with a skill of a perfect demolition artist, or that they were of power to make the plane irrelevant, OR that one building leveled without ever having been touched by plane or rubble...
Well, this war is over ~2,000 deaths in the trade towers. the offical AMERICAN deaths are 29,000+. The Iraq civilian body count is 83,000 to 91,000.
Enjoy ur country's horrible war crimes.

War crimes? Countries don't committ war crimes...people do. Nazis and the holocaust, My Lai massacre and Westmoreland, etc. America goes through so many leader changes that a crime against people (like black slavery) is not the fault of the current generation.

Wars since WWI (or even WWI) have not been about money. That may be a factor, but lets be real here.

America was very involved with WWI and WWII before it started fighting. WWII started, not because of money, but because of Hitlers invasion of Poland.

Desert Storm started because Iraq (led by Saddam) invaded Kuwait.

Don't get me started on Vietnam. The good thing about America is that you can heavily dessent and still support the people.

This overwhelming evidence of bombs in the world trade centers has been disproved beyond reproach. The creators of the theory even went back to the drawing board of trying to think of more things, and that shows what there intentions are. They want a conspiracy so bad, but it isn't there.

About supporting the troops, why wouldn't you? You may not agree with a war, that's fine, but if you don't support the TROOPS it's like saying "I hope they all die," which I don't think you want. These people fight for us, and we will never be able to thank them.

Anyone one else here notice that most of us were forced into church at a young age and taught that we would die and burn eternally if we did not submit?

For generations since the first the children of the creators of christanity have been forced into christianity. Taught that we would have eternal pain if we did not so out of fear we submitted...Now in this generation where religionis being challenged the people who dont submit to religion are being punished for it by others and even threatened, Evangelatists (sp?) have called it a war between not christians and christains. Now were being called the doomed generation. I call bull****.

Definitley remember attending Sunday school church and doing the little church crafts and what not. But it was something that brought me connection and happiness at my younger years.

After middle school and being away from the church I got myself into all different crazy types of things...it became just a cycle of trying to find who God really was.
It was my choice in the end bruh...
I see where your coming from but there is only division when we create division bro. When we live selfish lives and in crooked ways of course their is promised doom.

I agree that Muslims can be very kind (from who i've met, I have a close friend at school and she is Muslim). However, you can't ignore the Koran when it says not to take Jews or Christians as your friend and such, but whether or not these are in the wrong context has never been attempted to be explained to me. I can pull out my Koran and find these verses if you want.

If anything Jews are equally as bad as Muslims when it comes to "not take X as a friend". Apparently all non Jews are worth way less than a Jew.

why search for heaven later when we can attain now and here

I agree that Muslims can be very kind (from who i've met, I have a close friend at school and she is Muslim). However, you can't ignore the Koran when it says not to take Jews or Christians as your friend and such, but whether or not these are in the wrong context has never been attempted to be explained to me. I can pull out my Koran and find these verses if you want.


I'd be interested in seeing those verses actually. I read somewhere (so don't quote me on it cause I don't know for sure) that Jesus is the most quoted prophet in the Koran.

I know for a fact that Muslims regard all the Jewish prophets and Jesus and enlightened individuals by God. I can't imagine the Koran telling its followers to ignore the followers for prophets that it itself praises.

~Christian

Alright, no problem.

Surah 5:56: "O believers! take not the Jews nor Christians as friends. They are but one another's friends. If any one of you taketh them for his friends, he is surely one of them! God will not guide the evil doers."

For some reason if you search it on the net, it comes up as 5:51. It is actually 5:56 in mine, strange.

^ Two questions for you Tyler:

1) Is that the original translation from Arabic? Did it say "Jews & Christians" in it's original translation?

&

2) Why were you not apprehensive in posting such a verse? What I'm trying to say is, if a Muslim said "you gots it wrong, it's out of context" and then went on to claim that it was metaphorical, not literal, etc etc ... would you but it? Would that be enough?

^ Two questions for you Tyler:

1) Is that the original translation from Arabic? Did it say "Jews & Christians" in it's original translation?

&

2) Why were you not apprehensive in posting such a verse? What I'm trying to say is, if a Muslim said "you gots it wrong, it's out of context" and then went on to claim that it was metaphorical, not literal, etc etc ... would you but it? Would that be enough?

On the back of my Koran it says, "This convenient, affordable edition remains faithful to the original text without sacrificing the unique power and beauty that have made the Koran an unforgettable reading experience."

It's a verse in the Koran. In my previous post I said:

but whether or not these are in the wrong context has never been attempted to be explained to me.

I am open to the possibility that I am wrong. You have pulled out verses from the Bible and I have answered them the best I, as a person having no Bible education at all (I don't even attend sunday school), can answer them. However, reading on in the Koran, I haven't seen any recount of this verse or any reason to think it is recounted. I would love for a Muslim to tell me why it's in there.

Maybe it's in there because the Koran, just like the Bible, was written by people who carried the prejudices of their ancient time and projected them into the scriptures for their own purposes.

Maybe it's in there because the Koran, just like the Bible, was written by people who carried the prejudices of their ancient time and projected them into the scriptures for their own purposes.

But these prejudices (if you want to call it that...) have been done away with, and one of the highest commandments by Jesus (love thy neighbor) is in place. There is no need to kill homosexuals, because we do not live in a theocracy by the rules shown in Deuteronomy and such.

Heck, even if that particular theocracy was in place, it would go against what Jesus teaches. But this is a different matter.

^ How can you honestly say that your God is all about love when people like me, Noj, and all the other Atheists/Muslims/Buddhists/etc are going to hell? Do you even know what hell is like? Can you imagine the anguish and the agony the people of the holocaust went through, that alone would be a heaven compared to the hell created by your deity.

Go to LiveLeak.com and search for "executions" - you will feel an incredibly huge sense of digust in the pit of your stomach after watching some of the murders take place FOR THE DUMBEST CRIMES. And your God is exactly the same, punishing people for the crime of NOT BELIEVING?

You know, it really does amaze me...it's just making an excuse for a sadist. Even Hitler could achieve the status of a loving human being if we quoted all the nice things he's said and ignored the evil ones.

How can you people function in your day-to-day lives and not see this? It just absolutely astounds me that in the 21st century people still believe thee myths. Can't you people get it? God may very well exist...but how stupid do you have to be to believe that more than 50% of the world will burn for eternity because they simply didn't believe in your God?

Makes me sick

^ How can you honestly say that your God is all about love when people like me, Noj, and all the other Atheists/Muslims/Buddhists/etc are going to hell? Do you even know what hell is like? Can you imagine the anguish and the agony the people of the holocaust went through, that alone would be a heaven compared to the hell created by your deity.

Go to LiveLeak.com and search for "executions" - you will feel an incredibly huge sense of digust in the pit of your stomach after watching some of the murders take place FOR THE DUMBEST CRIMES. And your God is exactly the same, punishing people for the crime of NOT BELIEVING?

You know, it really does amaze me...it's just making an excuse for a sadist. Even Hitler could achieve the status of a loving human being if we quoted all the nice things he's said and ignored the evil ones.

How can you people function in your day-to-day lives and not see this? It just absolutely astounds me that in the 21st century people still believe thee myths. Can't you people get it? God may very well exist...but how stupid do you have to be to believe that more than 50% of the world will burn for eternity because they simply didn't believe in your God?

Makes me sick

It's not that God is saying "unbeliever! die!". It's that, as the Bible teaches, God is love, he is the ultimate comfort, protection. When you willingly reject the ultimate protecter, he will give you what you want, a place without him. What happens in that particular place is anyone's guess.

What actually astounds me is how many times something has been answered for you and yet you still ask it. Is it because you don't like the answer given?

You forgot the Koran thing because of your rant, fyi.

^ Don't you get it?

Do you honestly believe that God comes to us on a platter with a key to heaven and hell? Do you honestly think it's that easy? What kind of moron wouldn't choose to believe then?

Just please tell me, because I can't understand you people, just tell me why it's so hard to grasp the concept that the choice is not black & white? Why do you feel the choice is so obvious?

Why are the people who choose to think going to burn in hell? Because they can rationalize?

^ Don't you get it?

Do you honestly believe that God comes to us on a platter with a key to heaven and hell? Do you honestly think it's that easy? What kind of moron wouldn't choose to believe then?

Just please tell me, because I can't understand you people, just tell me why it's so hard to grasp the concept that the choice is not black & white? Why do you feel the choice is so obvious?

Why are the people who choose to think going to burn in hell? Because they can rationalize?

(Excuse me for guessing that you are Atheist if you are not)

So you are saying "we" are morons for believing in hope of being able to go to an eternal paradise when we die, while others just do not believe in anything? If there was only two religion, Atheistism or Christianity, one believes in nothing, while the other believes in there is a life after this life. Personally I would go with the one that bring hope to others.

Sure I can see some problem with Christianity but you are posting about how idiotic Christians are for having a reason to live a "holy" life. Sure anyone can live a "holy" life but Christianity, in a sense, offers a reward for doing so.

^ Don't you get it?

Do you honestly believe that God comes to us on a platter with a key to heaven and hell? Do you honestly think it's that easy? What kind of moron wouldn't choose to believe then?

Just please tell me, because I can't understand you people, just tell me why it's so hard to grasp the concept that the choice is not black & white? Why do you feel the choice is so obvious?

Why are the people who choose to think going to burn in hell? Because they can rationalize?

And I thought you started being more respectful...It's things like calling anyone who believes in God an irrational person and can't think that made you get banned from the Christian section.

And again, I am needing to repeat myself from past discussions.

Believing in God is, of course, not easy. But we don't ever not try things because they are "just hard." When you want a relationship with someone, you going to need to have faith in them, especially if it is of the 'intimate' relationship category. I realize that appears like semantics, but you can understand where i'm going.

The Bible says that if you try to find God, sincerely, with your heart, etc, he will reveal himself to you. Unfortunantly, many people can't do this, until they experience something bad. The Bible, particularly Paul, also mentions traits of a person 'filled with the holy spirit'. It's not my place to judge, but anyone lacking those traits are probably not a believer, though God is the only one who knows a person's heart.

I could talk of my own experiences, but you probably wouldn't care, based on your above comments.

(Excuse me for guessing that you are Atheist if you are not)

So you are saying "we" are morons for believing in hope of being able to go to an eternal paradise when we die, while others just do not believe in anything? If there was only two religion, Atheistism or Christianity, one believes in nothing, while the other believes in there is a life after this life. Personally I would go with the one that bring hope to others.

Atheistism, lol

It's not that we believe in "nothing" - it's that we refuse to believe a supernatural deity. Do you believe there is an elephant in the other room? Chances are you don't...now there very well could be but chances are you won't believe it, why?

And by the way, I didn't say that Christianity didn't bring 'hope' to others, it probably does, but that doesn't give it an ounce of truth. If that was the case then why not worship Ice Cream? It's quite satisfying as well...

And I thought you started being more respectful...It's things like calling anyone who believes in God an irrational person and can't think that made you get banned from the Christian section.

And again, I am needing to repeat myself from past discussions.

Believing in God is, of course, not easy. But we don't ever not try things because they are "just hard." When you want a relationship with someone, you going to need to have faith in them, especially if it is of the 'intimate' relationship category. I realize that appears like semantics, but you can understand where i'm going.

The Bible says that if you try to find God, sincerely, with your heart, etc, he will reveal himself to you. Unfortunantly, many people can't do this, until they experience something bad. The Bible, particularly Paul, also mentions traits of a person 'filled with the holy spirit'. It's not my place to judge, but anyone lacking those traits are probably not a believer, though God is the only one who knows a person's heart.

I could talk of my own experiences, but you probably wouldn't care, based on your above comments.

Do you guys think I care if you're offended? If this was any other subject you wouldn't be offended. What if I said that skateboarding is lame? Would you personally get offended? Of course not, but with religion you do and that, again, proves my point that you people ARE irrational. It's not in the least surprising that you never get "offended" when one of your cult members preaches AGAINST homosexuals having the right to marry, why aren't you offended then?

Everything you say could be applied to any other religion, including Islam. You think God responds to you if you're faithful, no, he only responds to you when you CONVINCE yourself that he's spoken to you. Muslims have told me they have a personal relationship with Allah and that he responds to them, after all, they do pray 5 times a day...why would I believe you over them?

The fact is, in the end, you still don't get it. You will never ever, ever, ever leave your faith because you're stubborn, that's a fact. You can not see it from any other perspective besides your own. Just as they think Allah is the answer, you think it's Jesus. They're sure of it.

After all, they've flown planes into buildings, that's how sure they are of their relationship...

Do you guys think I care if you're offended? If this was any other subject you wouldn't be offended. What if I said that skateboarding is lame? Would you personally get offended? Of course not, but with religion you do and that, again, proves my point that you people ARE irrational. It's not in the least surprising that you never get "offended" when one of your cult members preaches AGAINST homosexuals having the right to marry, why aren't you offended then?

Everything you say could be applied to any other religion, including Islam. You think God responds to you if you're faithful, no, he only responds to you when you CONVINCE yourself that he's spoken to you. Muslims have told me they have a personal relationship with Allah and that he responds to them, after all, they do pray 5 times a day...why would I believe you over them?

The fact is, in the end, you still don't get it. You will never ever, ever, ever leave your faith because you're stubborn, that's a fact. You can not see it from any other perspective besides your own. Just as they think Allah is the answer, you think it's Jesus. They're sure of it.

After all, they've flown planes into buildings, that's how sure they are of their relationship...

I wouldn't get offended if you said skating was lame. I would get offended if you called me a juvenile deliquent because I skateboarded. If you haven't noticed by now, I am quite the indapendant Christian, so what other denominations or people do doesn't really apply to me. The homosexual issue is something i've been split on for awhile, so it's a moot point.

They may very well have a relationship, but it cannot be the same when the core belief in Islam is 'submit' while the core in Christianity is 'choose'.

I haven't found anything that could sway my faith enough to make me leave it. Please don't imply that you know me better than myself.

You aren't implying all Muslims are extremists are you?

I was pushed too, I had to go to chinese sunday school. It was horrible, I never understood and when I questioned God or Jesus the Sister told me I would go to hell for doubting. It scared the crap outta me and I kept believing I was gunna burn in hell til I was like 13. I don't go anymore, Im strictly buddhist ;D

^Tyler

What would make you sway your faith, not that I care but I'm just curious? For example, proof of evolution? Proof the earth is older than 6,000 years old? Proof that we never co-existed with dinosaurs? Proof that it's impossible for anything to be omnipotent and omniscient at the same time? Proof that the world flood was impossible?

What sorts of things are you looking for that could sway your faith? Not that I care, I assume you're a good-hearted Christian, but what evidence would work?

Not really sure about those. Christianity has so many different ideas that people think are compatible with it.

Proof of many biblical character's nonexistance would be pretty strong.

Not really sure about those. Christianity has so many different ideas that people think are compatible with it.

Proof of many biblical character's nonexistance would be pretty strong.

That's it? How would someone be able to prove the nonexistence of anything for that matter?

Again, you're brainwashed, just admit that nothing will ever convince you. It's too bad your children will inevitably suffer from the same dogma.

Again, why take my post so literally? I left it open to you, meaning I don't know. I had one idea, and posted it.

Stop being so offensive. I could easily call you ignorant, stupid, irrational, and just an overall case of ***hole.

I really don't know why I waste my time in this section when friendly debate is nearly absent.

^ Are you saying it's offensive if I called your religion a mental illness? Is it not true that you find it offensive when I say that you're ignorant? Do you also get offended when many people jump on you for simply having an opinion? Or when people think you're lost and uneducated? And when people say "you're just too dumb to change?"

Does that offend you? Good

...at least you get a taste of what homosexuals go through in the United States every day...or a taste of what an Atheist goes through when trying to run for public office.

Guess it doesn't feel too good now does it? I hope that feeling sticks with you when one of your cult members tries to oppress someone else for their beliefs, or lack thereof.

It would all be good if those damn religious people stopped saying sh*t like "God gives me strength to help the homeless, God gives me hope and bla bla bla"

It seriously sounds like a bunch of weak people with no direction and just follow the herd basically. I call them sheeple and so do many others. It's weak people with no clue what to do and has this sick need for something more than reality. So they believe in this imaginary guy to feel they are important.

Now I know a lot of people who believes there is something/someone that made everything. I don't really have a problem but once it's something you supposedly gets strength from etc. I start /facepalming.

Give less credit to fantasy more credit to your mind. It's all in the mindset and apparently a lot of people can't do anything w/o believing in fantasy.

razz, and just who does this to atheists and homosexuals? Christians who aren't doing exactly what is expected, along with other theists.

Why do you assume that just because I am a Christian, I oppress homosexuals, atheists, etc.? That is a generalization and a logical fallacy. If you MUST know, I don't think your faith should come with politics. I didn't support the Huckabee campaign when I heard about the whole "we must amend the Constitution to God's will" because that would do exactly as you say.

Not all Christians are bad and I hope you see it that way one day friend.

^ Do you support the homosexuals' right to marry? And who deserves to be president more, a kind generous Atheist or a kind generous Christian?

World War 1-Not started by religion
it was caused by mindless nationalism. there's 80 bajillion countries in Europe mostly religon. group X still wants to be catholic while group Y wnats to be Protestant. they kill eachother and the survivors make seperate countries. fast forward a couple centuries and you have the intnese nationalism that caused WWI



World War 2-Not started by religion(although religion was a crucial part of the holocaust, it was not the cause. Fascism and military expansionism was)
again, mindless nationalism. Hitler founded the Ocult that portrayed Jesus as a Jew-Killing Messiah. religon still was a factor. though it was mostly WWI and the great depression that caused it.



Korean War-Not started by religion

The Vietnam War-Not started by religion


i'll give you those. but they were wars between Communists and Capitalists, and during the Red Scare we added "under God" to the pledge of allegiance so we could remember why we were fighting. the communists wanted to remove internal conflict by removing religion (+rep to Soviet Russia)

I think it's fine to teach the children about the Christian religion, but they should also educate them in other religions as well. Give them the choice to be a Christian or a Atheist, or anyother religion of the choice. Just telling them This is the truth and even though your only 5 god has no problem sending you to hell where you have to get cooties from little girls touching you forever and ever. Saying I think this and I believe that, but the choice is yours to pick what you think the truth is and one day we will both find the real truth is fine.

I actually didn't read those posts by IdiotProof, but another response:

The Crusades - NOT started by Hitler
Hiroshima - NOT started by Hitler
Palestinian-Israeli War - NOT started by Hitler

So what? Does that make Hitler a good boy?

America was very involved with WWI and WWII before it started fighting. WWII started, not because of money, but because of Hitlers invasion of Poland.

and why then, did Hitler invade poland? after WWI the allies took pretty much everything from the losing countries, and the nthe great depression hit. Germany needed money. and food. and gas. and hope.



Don't get me started on Vietnam. The good thing about America is that you can heavily dessent and still support the people.



Vietnam started as a break off from France that turned into a commu/capita war. it goes to show that trying to fight an ideology is a futile waste of time, money, and lives
Merging doublepost
(Excuse me for guessing that you are Atheist if you are not)

So you are saying "we" are morons for believing in hope of being able to go to an eternal paradise when we die, while others just do not believe in anything? If there was only two religion, Atheistism or Christianity, one believes in nothing, while the other believes in there is a life after this life. Personally I would go with the one that bring hope to others.



but that isn't how it is, and you can't pretend like it is so stop trying to.
Merging doublepost

They may very well have a relationship, but it cannot be the same when the core belief in Islam is 'submit' while the core in Christianity is 'choose'.



correct if i'm wrong but i'm fairly certain that the core in Christianity is "Love."

my super bigoted, home-schooled, super pious student teacher taught us this during the time we were supposed to learn about Islam so sorry if its wrong.

but isn't it kind of hypocritical? "i love you but i'm going to damn you to hell anyways" doesn't quite work in my head
Merging doublepost
And who deserves to be president more, a kind generous Atheist or a kind generous Christian?

razz that is kind of low. i would need to know more about them than just "kind and genorous." i need favorite colors.:icon_pelv{rf)

Sure anyone can live a "holy" life but Christianity, in a sense, offers a reward for doing so.

in the way you said it (doing good solely for a reward), is a bit selfish don't ya think??
Merging doublepost
The Bible says that if you try to find God, sincerely, with your heart, etc, he will reveal himself to you. Unfortunantly, many people can't do this, until they experience something bad. The Bible, particularly Paul, also mentions traits of a person 'filled with the holy spirit'. It's not my place to judge, but anyone lacking those traits are probably not a believer, though God is the only one who knows a person's heart.

wait, so god says if you dont try to find him and you reject him, you go to hell..but you say some people simply can't do it..so technically you are saying god is setting a few select people up for failure in the afterlife...and you dont think that's f'd up??
Merging doublepost
They may very well have a relationship, but it cannot be the same when the core belief in Islam is 'submit' while the core in Christianity is 'choose'.

not really.. its 'choose' or 'go to hell' which essentially means 'submit'..'or else'.
Merging doublepost
Why do you assume that just because I am a Christian, I oppress homosexuals, atheists, etc.?

because the book that you supposedly live by is strongly against it.

correct if i'm wrong but i'm fairly certain that the core in Christianity is "Love."

Different context.

^ Do you support the homosexuals' right to marry? And who deserves to be president more, a kind generous Atheist or a kind generous Christian?

I said I have been split on the homosexual subject for a long time. And I would base my presidential vote on many more things than religion. I already told you, I don't believe in bringing religion to politics.

and why then, did Hitler invade poland? after WWI the allies took pretty much everything from the losing countries, and the nthe great depression hit. Germany needed money. and food. and gas. and hope.

Germant already had money, food, gas, and hope. Hitler brought that to them. He invaded Poland because he dreamed of conquering all of Europe.

wait, so god says if you dont try to find him and you reject him, you go to hell..but you say some people simply can't do it..so technically you are saying god is setting a few select people up for failure in the afterlife...and you dont think that's f'd up??

No I am not saying that at all.

not really.. its 'choose' or 'go to hell' which essentially means 'submit'..'or else'.

I recommend studying your Bible a bit more. If you don't want God, he'll give you a place without him.

because the book that you supposedly live by is strongly against it.

Again, please study your Bible before you make assertions. The Bible is against the act, not the people. It says love your neighbor.

No I am not saying that at all.

so what are you saying??



I recommend studying your Bible a bit more. If you don't want God, he'll give you a place without him.



which is hell, correct??
Again, please study your Bible before you make assertions. The Bible is against the act, not the people. It says love your neighbor.
which is why i said against it[/] and not [b]them

so what are you saying??

You exclaimed that I meant to say God is who determines who believes, and that is not what I meant at all. People themselves are unable to do this.

which is hell, correct??

I would recommend losing the image of torment and anguish. Whether or not that is what happens there is a moot point. If you go there, you're choosing it over God. If God is real, in the Christian sense, then he is the ultimate protecter, the light. If you choose to not want him, and he gives you a place where he is absent, then whatever happens there is anyone's guess.

which is why i said against [b]it[/] and not them

Oh come on..you and I both know you were saying it in the context that because the Bible teaches against homosexuality, that I oppress homosexuals. That is not true at all.

I said I have been split on the homosexual subject for a long time. And I would base my presidential vote on many more things than religion. I already told you, I don't believe in bringing religion to politics.

Just curious, what's their to be split about? Shouldn't a kind-hearted Christian follow their conscience and respect people for who they are? Or do you need a book to tell you what that is?

And I never asked about bringing religion into politics, I asked who'd be more qualified...their religious affiliation wouldn't have any base on your vote? Swear on Jesus to that?

Just curious, what's their to be split about? Shouldn't a kind-hearted Christian follow their conscience and respect people for who they are? Or do you need a book to tell you what that is?

And I never asked about bringing religion into politics, I asked who'd be more qualified...their religious affiliation wouldn't have any base on your vote? Swear on Jesus to that?

Don't try to twist my words into something else. I'd rather not debate what I don't have a decision about.

How they are qualified has nothing to do with their religion, it has to do with their foreign policy, economic plan, etc. Say you had an atheist and christian running at the same time who had the exact same plan for everything, then I would vote the Christian. But this will most likely not happen.

I actually talked to a friend of mine in Kentucky who does a lot of campaigning for Christian candidates. He, of course, supported Huckabee. I said that I didn't support Huckabee for the fact that he said we needed to amend our Constitution to suit God's will, and that if you do this, you are impeding upon some one else, which is what Jesus said not to do. He of course replied that he would support a candidate "who God would want."

The USA is not a definitive Christian nation, and as such you can't let a person's faith be the deciding factor, or as I believe a factor much at all.

To be honest, i'm not the biggest brain on politics. The only reason i'm talking about it now is because it has something to do with Christianity.

I don't disagree with certain religions, I disagree with certain people. I've met close-minded Atheists and tolerant Christians, and I've found that I'd rather be friends with the Christians. There are annoying people in every religion or belief system.

Of course, I've grown up in a Christian family, but I've formed my own thoughts and beliefs, and I've been allowed to. So I'm not bitter at all. I feel lucky compared to some people who really have been brainwashed, because they won't even allow themselves to consider other options.

Don't try to twist my words into something else. I'd rather not debate what I don't have a decision about.

How they are qualified has nothing to do with their religion, it has to do with their foreign policy, economic plan, etc. Say you had an atheist and christian running at the same time who had the exact same plan for everything, then I would vote the Christian. But this will most likely not happen.

You know what I'd vote in that situation? Neither, only because they're both equally qualified.

I also believe that's the correct thing to do, I would've vote for the Atheist just because I happen to be one...

I actually talked to a friend of mine in Kentucky who does a lot of campaigning for Christian candidates. He, of course, supported Huckabee. I said that I didn't support Huckabee for the fact that he said we needed to amend our Constitution to suit God's will, and that if you do this, you are impeding upon some one else, which is what Jesus said not to do. He of course replied that he would support a candidate "who God would want."

The USA is not a definitive Christian nation, and as such you can't let a person's faith be the deciding factor, or as I believe a factor much at all.

To be honest, i'm not the biggest brain on politics. The only reason i'm talking about it now is because it has something to do with Christianity.

That's probably the best thing I've ever heard you say, may not be completely honest, but I believe you. Otherwise, I don't understand why you'd be split on the homosexuality issue, based on that last post I thought you'd be one that doesn't care and would gladly stop the fundies from trying to enforce their beliefs on what they believe is "the sanctity of marriage"

At least you're better than most of them...I'll give you that.

You know what I'd vote in that situation? Neither, only because they're both equally qualified.

I also believe that's the correct thing to do, I would've vote for the Atheist just because I happen to be one...

Well I would want one in office. Politics is about choosing the lesser of two evils, in which case I believe is the Christian, unless they are something like a radical or westboro baptist.



That's probably the best thing I've ever heard you say, may not be completely honest, but I believe you. Otherwise, I don't understand why you'd be split on the homosexuality issue, based on that last post I thought you'd be one that doesn't care and would gladly stop the fundies from trying to enforce their beliefs on what they believe is "the sanctity of marriage"

At least you're better than most of them...I'll give you that.

You're going to doubt my word? What I said coincides with what I told you I believed in above posts, that faith shouldn't come into politics. Sheesh...I can PM you the man's myspace if you need any other proof that I am not a liar.

"The sanctity of marriage" really has to do with churches marrying people. I don't see a homosexual union as 'marriage' because marriage to me is what is defined in the Bible...between man and woman, among other things. But mainly the split comes when, if gay 'marriage' is made legal, churches may follow suit (and I know some preachers who would happily marry gay people in the church) and curious people may try it out themselves.

That's really all I wish to say on the matter.

"The sanctity of marriage" really has to do with churches marrying people. I don't see a homosexual union as 'marriage' because marriage to me is what is defined in the Bible...between man and woman, among other things. But mainly the split comes when, if gay 'marriage' is made legal, churches may follow suit (and I know some preachers who would happily marry gay people in the church) and curious people may try it out themselves.

That's really all I wish to say on the matter.


Not really trying to get involved in this debate but I felt like adding this in. The fact that people may try "being gay" if gay marriage is legal is just a ridiculous idea to me but my main point is don't people have every right to try it if they want? You do argue that God gave us free will and I would not think that the will to be gay if you want would not be excluded in that free will and the same with preachers having the right to marry them, it's not doing any harm to society, so why not? And as for the "sanctity of marriage", I think reality TV has already done a bigger toll on marriage and relationships than gay marriage ever will. Also wouldn't taking your views on marriage from the Bible essentially be bringing religion, even if just slightly, into politics, something you're trying not to do? Just my two cents. :tongue:

Not really trying to get involved in this debate but I felt like adding this in. The fact that people may try "being gay" if gay marriage is legal is just a ridiculous idea to me but my main point is don't people have every right to try it if they want? You do argue that God gave us free will and I would not think that the will to be gay if you want would not be excluded in that free will and the same with preachers having the right to marry them, it's not doing any harm to society, so why not? And as for the "sanctity of marriage", I think reality TV has already done a bigger toll on marriage and relationships than gay marriage ever will. Also wouldn't taking your views on marriage from the Bible essentially be bringing religion, even if just slightly, into politics, something you're trying not to do? Just my two cents. :tongue:

People have a right to choose, yes. And I don't plan to 'not allow' them. I think you're using your definition of free will, when the outlook of the Bible on it is what you think you're talking about. The Bible says you have a right to choose between good and evil.

About the preachers, the Bible says they must be 'above reproach'. This means they should not be gay, wed gay people, be divorced, etc.

I agree with the reality TV bit.

No, my outlook on gay marriage (or lack thereof yet) has nothing to do with politics. If I were to vote for a candidate because they didn't want gay marriage, I would be bringing it into politics. My ideas on the issue have nothing to do with the state, but everything to do with the church.

^I see what you're saying, you just don't get involved in the issue. Since you don't believe that by technicality because of your definition of marriage there really is such a thing as gay marriage would support something like Civil Union like New Jersey has?

Yes, with a bit of reluctance, (this is where my split is). It will cause others to want to try it, but at the same time if you don't allow it, you are impeding your faith on other people. It's basically a lose-lose sitaution.

I had thought a lot on the topic, but the way you phrased it in post #98 is interesting.

Well I would want one in office. Politics is about choosing the lesser of two evils, in which case I believe is the Christian, unless they are something like a radical or westboro baptist.

Did you just insinuate that the Christian would be the lesser of two evils? I don't see the logic, sounds sort of bigoted to me...

"The sanctity of marriage" really has to do with churches marrying people.

That makes no sense, then what would Muslims, Jews, Hindu's, Atheists call their union? Looks like your line of thinking only appeals to Christians.

People have a right to choose, yes. And I don't plan to 'not allow' them. I think you're using your definition of free will, when the outlook of the Bible on it is what you think you're talking about. The Bible says you have a right to choose between good and evil.

But evil to you may be different to me. I mean, if I found slavery to be something I'd look into I could use the Bible as a means to support me. Same with incest, I could bring up Abraham and Sarah (who were half-brother and sister), or Isaac and Rebekah (who were second cousins).

Besides that, let me ask you something Tyler, do you honestly believe that people choose to be gay?

Yes, with a bit of reluctance, (this is where my split is). It will cause others to want to try it, but at the same time if you don't allow it, you are impeding your faith on other people. It's basically a lose-lose sitaution.

I had thought a lot on the topic, but the way you phrased it in post #98 is interesting.

How so interesting? Not all of the post was really directly at you but kind of at Christians in general who are specifically against gay marriage. I remember =Z28= reason for it was to keep the world from "morally decaying." He'd never answer me when I asked if oppression was a moral we should live by as to use Christianity as a means of keeping gay marriage illegal is essentially oppression.
I just can't agree with you that legalization would result in more people trying it.

How so interesting? Not all of the post was really directly at you but kind of at Christians in general who are specifically against gay marriage. I remember =Z28= reason for it was to keep the world from "morally decaying." He'd never answer me when I asked if oppression was a moral we should live by as to use Christianity as a means of keeping gay marriage illegal is essentially oppression.
I just can't agree with you that legalization would result in more people trying it.

What I mean is that when you say "it's the persons choice either way if they want to try it" it makes me think of the situation in a different outlook.

That makes no sense, then what would Muslims, Jews, Hindu's, Atheists call their union? Looks like your line of thinking only appeals to Christians.

Please...you know exactly what I am saying. Don't turn it into something it is not.

But evil to you may be different to me. I mean, if I found slavery to be something I'd look into I could use the Bible as a means to support me. Same with incest, I could bring up Abraham and Sarah (who were half-brother and sister), or Isaac and Rebekah (who were second cousins).

Incest wasn't forbidden until Moses, because there wasn't a large pool of people. Also, the genes at the time would be 'perfect' enough to allow it. I would look into a Christian apologist on that issue.

Besides that, let me ask you something Tyler, do you honestly believe that people choose to be gay?

I don't really know. I could see people being born with the sin of being gay, just like men are born with the best chance for the sin of lust. I would want to know what a bisexual is, why so many people turn away from being gay, etc.

I don't really know. I could see people being born with the sin of being gay, just like men are born with the best chance for the sin of lust. I would want to know what a bisexual is, why so many people turn away from being gay, etc.

No one turns *away* from being gay. Just because you practice chastity that does mean you're no longer gay.

And sorry to add, but what evidence do you have that someone could just "stop" being gay? Have there been scientific studies that correlated the difference? Could it be that a select few of fundies decided that 'pretending to be gay and turning away' could be a good way to put a plague on science?

Surely, if one can turn away from homosexuality then they could turn away from heterosexuality, so let me ask you, could you stop having lust for women?

I didn't think so

No one turns *away* from being gay. Just because you practice chastity that does mean you're no longer gay.

And sorry to add, but what evidence do you have that someone could just "stop" being gay? Have there been scientific studies that correlated the difference? Could it be that a select few of fundies decided that 'pretending to be gay and turning away' could be a good way to put a plague on science?

Evidence comes from people's personal experiences. I don't think you can pretend to know someone better than themselves and say "you're still gay, you're just in denial, you're chaste." This 'select few' you talk about probably doesn't exist, and if it didm would constitute a small portion of people who claim to not be gay anymore.

Surely, if one can turn away from homosexuality then they could turn away from heterosexuality, so let me ask you, could you stop having lust for women?

I didn't think so

Stop jumping to conclusions.

I haven't thought a lot on the subject, but that is a loaded question. No answer I give will be a definite one, because of this.

I am a Christian, and as such, don't want to turn to sin. Meaning, if you asked me to turn to homosexuality, I wouldn't. Just like I wouldn't turn to premarital sex or incest.

There's a group of these idiotic "God Hates Fags" people protesting down by the mall in my home town this evening. It's sad to me that people can be so stupid and insensitive and completely wrong-thinking. In my opinion, the Bible, in declaring that homosexuality is sin, enables this sort of hate and those who agree that it is sin are passive-aggressively supporting such hate. And it's no different whatsoever than the KKK or Neo-Nazis or any other hate group. They have the right to make their imbecilic opinion heard, but they represent the absolute worst type of human being on the planet.

As far as I'm concerned, homosexuals have always existed and always will. Choice or not a choice, they're not going anywhere. Leave 'em alone. Let them be happy. Live and let live.

Evidence comes from people's personal experiences. I don't think you can pretend to know someone better than themselves and say "you're still gay, you're just in denial, you're chaste." This 'select few' you talk about probably doesn't exist, and if it didm would constitute a small portion of people who claim to not be gay anymore.

Evidence comes from people's personal experiences? What??? No it doesn't...

Personal experience is just that, personal. It hasn't got the slightest relevance to actual evidence. And anyone who sleeps with a man, for sexual purposes, is gay. They can not be cured, they're only kidding themselves and reality if they think they are.

If a pedophile who's raped 100 kids came and told you "seriously! Judge Tyler! I am no longer attracted to kids, I was, but I'm not no more!"

Would you believe him? Would you let the pedophile back into society knowing full well he's changed?

Stop jumping to conclusions.

Start acting your age and not like a 5 year old girl who gets offended at the dumbest things, can any of you actual take criticism without whining like a bunch of rugrats? What the hell is the matter with you, what is with you and getting offended at everything lately?

What are you? In grade school? Grow up. If you can't handle adult conversations then don't respond to my posts, go and debate in the Christian section about how evil Satan is for creating heavy metal.

I haven't thought a lot on the subject, but that is a loaded question. No answer I give will be a definite one, because of this.

I am a Christian, and as such, don't want to turn to sin. Meaning, if you asked me to turn to homosexuality, I wouldn't. Just like I wouldn't turn to premarital sex or incest.

So the only reason you aren't turning into a homosexual, or fornicate, or commit incest is because a book tells you so?

Evidence comes from people's personal experiences? What??? No it doesn't...

Personal experience is just that, personal. It hasn't got the slightest relevance to actual evidence. And anyone who sleeps with a man, for sexual purposes, is gay. They can not be cured, they're only kidding themselves and reality if they think they are.

If a pedophile who's raped 100 kids came and told you "seriously! Judge Tyler! I am no longer attracted to kids, I was, but I'm not no more!"

Would you believe him? Would you let the pedophile back into society knowing full well he's changed?[/QUOTE]

Another loaded question. Pedophilia is against the law, homosexuality isn't.

I guess you think you know some people better than they know themselves.

Start acting your age and not like a 5 year old girl who gets offended at the dumbest things, can any of you actual take criticism without whining like a bunch of rugrats? What the hell is the matter with you, what is with you and getting offended at everything lately?

What are you? In grade school? Grow up. If you can't handle adult conversations then don't respond to my posts, go and debate in the Christian section about how evil Satan is for creating heavy metal.

I wasn't offended. Stop jumping to conclusions. I just stated that you shouldn't give what you think the answer is to a question before I answer it.

So the only reason you aren't turning into a homosexual, or fornicate, or commit incest is because a book tells you so?

Because I have no desire myself to do it. My life is completely fine the way it is.

For a man who can never get himself any is a different story.

Another loaded question. Pedophilia is against the law, homosexuality isn't.

I guess you think you know some people better than they know themselves.

Stop saying "loaded question" - Do you even know what a loaded question is? I don't think you do. "Would you still support letting pedophiles out into society?" is a loaded question. Asking "Would you support letting a pedophile out into society?" IS NOT a loaded question.

Another thing, you said "Pedophilia is against the law, homosexuality isn't." - so what? If being black was against the law, would you support that as well? You keep playing by these double standards and you're walking yourself into a corner.

Because I have no desire myself to do it. My life is completely fine the way it is.

For a man who can never get himself any is a different story.

You've never had a desire to fornicate? Not even using contraptions? Are you saying this because you sincerely mean it or because you've never had the chance?

Stop saying "loaded question" - Do you even know what a loaded question is? I don't think you do. "Would you still support letting pedophiles out into society?" is a loaded question. Asking "Would you support letting a pedophile out into society?" IS NOT a loaded question.

Another thing, you said "Pedophilia is against the law, homosexuality isn't." - so what? If being black was against the law, would you support that as well? You keep playing by these double standards and you're walking yourself into a corner.

You're trying to put homosexuality on the same grounds as pedophilia, it simply isn't.

You're judged by your actions and not your words.


You've never had a desire to fornicate? Not even using contraptions? Are you saying this because you sincerely mean it or because you've never had the chance?

Depends on what you mean by 'desire'. Have I lusted? Who hasn't. Have I ever wanted to sleep with my girlfriend when I am with her? No. I'm sure you know why..

You're trying to put homosexuality on the same grounds as pedophilia, it simply isn't.

You're judged by your actions and not your words.

What the hell are you talking about? I never correlated the two. Prove this for me, and then answer my question.

Depends on what you mean by 'desire'. Have I lusted? Who hasn't. Have I ever wanted to sleep with my girlfriend when I am with her? No. I'm sure you know why..

No, I don't know why? It can't be because you aren't attracted to her, is it because you fear a pregnancy? Even with all the contraptions that exist today?

No, I don't know why? It can't be because you aren't attracted to her, is it because you fear a pregnancy? Even with all the contraptions that exist today?

Jesus.

What the hell are you talking about? I never correlated the two. Prove this for me, and then answer my question.

You're judged by your actions and not your words.

Jesus.

Because you fear Jesus? Nice, what a great way to be moral!



What the hell are you talking about? I never correlated the two. Prove this for me, and then answer my question.
You're judged by your actions and not your words.

Hmm...if that's the case, then why is faith the only way to get into Heaven? What's wrong with being a good moral person and not simply believing in a God?

Because you fear Jesus? Nice, what a great way to be moral!

1. Understand fear in the context of the Bible.
2. No.


Hmm...if that's the case, then why is faith the only way to get into Heaven? What's wrong with being a good moral person and not simply believing in a God?

I know the answer to this question completely, but it'd be better explained to you through an educated apologist. Nevertheless:

James 2:24: "You see that a man is justified by works, and not by faith alone."

The above verse is coupled with other verses about dead faith, live faith, etc. It means that among men, you are judged by what you do. This is not to contradict God who judges you by your faith.

1. Understand fear in the context of the Bible.


Unfortunately you don't understand the Bible enough. You see, I was taught in Sunday school, and I was taught in a theology class. Unfortunately, you must understand that there are biased sides, I looked at both and understand the context of the Bible, you dont.

So, pick up the Bible and study it some more, you obviously don't understand it at all, shame, I do, and I'm an Atheist.

I know the answer to this question completely, but it'd be better explained to you through an educated apologist. Nevertheless:

James 2:24: "You see that a man is justified by works, and not by faith alone."

The above verse is coupled with other verses about dead faith, live faith, etc. It means that among men, you are judged by what you do. This is not to contradict God who judges you by your faith.

Tyler, do you do this on purpose or are you just dumb? Sorry that I have to be so blunt but I'm beginning to think that you're really an idiot.

Why is it each time I bring up a point you bring up another point that just contradicts the Bible itself? For example:

Person1: I think Hitler was an evil and vile man
Person2: Hitler once said in his book Mein kampf, in quote, "I love Germany and all it's people! I want nothing but success for them"


Do you see what I mean? Does that quote by Hitler make him a good man? Obviously not, but just because he made a 'right' that does not mean it overwrites a 'wrong'. The Bible is all about faith, that's the most important thing and to me, that's idiotic. At least the Muslims pray 5 times a day, and the Sihks wear their Turbans to please their God.

What the hell do you guys do? What, attend Church every 4 months and tell Jesus you love him? That's it? So he died for your sins and all you have to do is believe?

Hell, even Muslims (probably the most disgusting religion in terms of scripture) tells it's believers to fast for 30 days, pay zakaat (charity), and even make a pilgrimage to Mecca. What do you guys get to do? Put lights on a Christmas tree and sing kumbaya?

Unfortunately you don't understand the Bible enough. You see, I was taught in Sunday school, and I was taught in a theology class. Unfortunately, you must understand that there are biased sides, I looked at both and understand the context of the Bible, you dont.

So, pick up the Bible and study it some more, you obviously don't understand it at all, shame, I do, and I'm an Atheist.

I guess when you read "the Lord did terrible things," you take terrible as being bad and evil too?

With all the respect in the world, I honestly don't think they taught you well enough. (Explained below).

Tyler, do you do this on purpose or are you just dumb? Sorry that I have to be so blunt but I'm beginning to think that you're really an idiot.

Why is it each time I bring up a point you bring up another point that just contradicts the Bible itself? For example:



Do you see what I mean? Does that quote by Hitler make him a good man? Obviously not, but just because he made a 'right' that does not mean it overwrites a 'wrong'. The Bible is all about faith, that's the most important thing and to me, that's idiotic. At least the Muslims pray 5 times a day, and the Sihks wear their Turbans to please their God.

What the hell do you guys do? What, attend Church every 4 months and tell Jesus you love him? That's it? So he died for your sins and all you have to do is believe?

Hell, even Muslims (probably the most disgusting religion in terms of scripture) tells it's believers to fast for 30 days, pay zakaat (charity), and even make a pilgrimage to Mecca. What do you guys get to do? Put lights on a Chri