umm yea homosexuality is bad, god destoryed 2 yes TWO cities for it, thats like erasing new york and los angles, sodom and gommorah, also, he said men that lie with men = gay sex, will not inherit gods kingdom. their answered. answers been their all along.

Another mindless drone

you used "their" instead of "there", but thats the least of your worries.

how so

your argument that homosexuality is bad is that it says so in the Bible. This would be fine if some one else that was religious was looking for exact stories in the Bible.

But as any type of deeper proof that homosexuality is bad your argument falls on its face.

to clarify my point more, you would need a better reference in an argument than, "it said so in a book." It doesn't matter how good the book is.

With this reasoning I could say that I'm free to be friends with aliens because the Rebels defeated the Galactic Empire or that I should avoid the industrial sector of my town because Cobra Commander might attack the electronics manufacturers for their valuable lasers.

Wow dude.

Yeah, also, Dark Magic is bad, it says so in Harrry Potter and the Chamber of Seacrest.


OMG! Hidden American Idol shiz!


but seriously, this thread is worth it.
Watch what happens when I post up a thread telling everyone that Harry Potter said dark magic is bad.

Lockzorz.



Seriously, there is no more proof that the crap in the bible happened than there is that the stuff in the harry potter series happened.

Wow dude.

Yeah, also, Dark Magic is bad, it says so in Harrry Potter and the Chamber of Seacrest.


OMG! Hidden American Idol shiz!


but seriously, this thread is worth it.
Watch what happens when I post up a thread telling everyone that Harry Potter said dark magic is bad.

Lockzorz.



Seriously, there is no more proof that the crap in the bible happened than there is that the stuff in the harry potter series happened.

there is but that isn't the point.

and when did you become a mod to call down the "lockzorz"?

ugh, I certainly hope you're not going to frequent this section. We don't need another headache.

By the way, Sodom and Gomorrah, are not like New York and Los Angeles. Back then, population wise, it was like taking out a couple towns by today's over-populated standards.

Also, real homosexuals aren't doing it to sin. It's just how they are. They know right from their childhood that they are attracted to members of the same sex. There is no such thing as bisexual. Bisexuals are just people "experimenting" and they don't have a psychological condition that makes them do so. Homosexuality is imprinted in your brain, it's you. It's as natural as a guy liking a girl. It's not a choice, and it's ignorant/ imbecillic to think of it as immoral.

i dont think ive ever seen someone with that much bad rep

^ It's simply because he's a moron, nothing more.

I mean, the logic in his post is this. There happened to be some gay people in two cities (we're assuming that not everyone was a homosexual) and God, as opposed to killing all the homosexuals, decided to smite the ENTIRE city! Everyone!

Because men liked other men and God doesn't like that!

To tell you the truth, I think I figured out why God hates gays! Now we all know that Jesus=God right? And we've all heard =Z28= tell us that Jesus loves everyone(:icon_hug:) right? Well it turns Jesus just has some jealousy problems you see :icon_mad:, these gays love(:icon_pelv:icon_pelv) people of the same sex more than Jesus does and he just can't stand that. Just wait next it will be those priest who love(:icon_pelv:icon_pelv) little boys more than Jesus does! :)

You desperately need to talk to a legit theologian. In the Bible, God didn't destroy those cities because of homosexuality.

Neg'd.

Oh snap.

Winnar.

Mmmk I just did about an hour of research followed by reading the Bible just to clarify my point, and I must say, anyone who uses the Sodom and Gomorrah narrative as an argument against homosexuality is ignorant. In the Bible, God destroys these cities because the men of the city were rude to the divine strangers who had come to pass judgment on Sodom, and they tried to rape them. God ridded these people from society because they were completely inhospitable and sexually perverse, not because they were homosexual. If you honestly make a connection between male-male rape and consentual, civilized, modern homosexuality, you're a disgusting individual.

there is but that isn't the point.

and when did you become a mod to call down the "lockzorz"?

Berishmen likes to pretend he is a mod.

I wouldnt care if the bible said homosexuality was wrong or not anyway, i have a mind of my own and am capable of forming my own opinions on whats right or wrong.

umm yea homosexuality is bad, god destoryed 2 yes TWO cities for it, thats like erasing new york and los angles, sodom and gommorah, also, he said men that lie with men = gay sex, will not inherit gods kingdom. their answered. answers been their all along.

dude I am a baptist and I so agree! Props, man.

ugh, I certainly hope you're not going to frequent this section. We don't need another headache.

By the way, Sodom and Gomorrah, are not like New York and Los Angeles. Back then, population wise, it was like taking out a couple towns by today's over-populated standards.

Also, real homosexuals aren't doing it to sin. It's just how they are. They know right from their childhood that they are attracted to members of the same sex. There is no such thing as bisexual. Bisexuals are just people "experimenting" and they don't have a psychological condition that makes them do so. Homosexuality is imprinted in your brain, it's you. It's as natural as a guy liking a girl. It's not a choice, and it's ignorant/ imbecillic to think of it as immoral.

none of that is proven.

I personally don't believe you're born gay.

I think that someone really has to reach a certain level of stupidity, at least intellectually to assume that someone chooses (and for God's sake, CHOOSES) their sexual orientation. I mean, I just don't see the logic...I can normally understand both sides to a debate but this one is just downright stupid. I can't choose to like men the same way I can't choose to like a pig and to think otherwise is ignorant.

none of that is proven.

It has been proven that homosexuals know from childhood, the same time when heterosexuals have feelings.

I personally don't believe you're born gay.

It's not a matter of believing. Like razz says. They figure out they are gay when you figure out you like girls. It's not pick and choose.

none of that is proven.

I personally don't believe you're born gay.
Do you choose to be straight? If you do, I think it's time for you to come out of the closet. We won't judge.

Personally, I don't wake up every morning forcing myself to be straight. I hang out with a lot of gay guys, so life would probably be a lot easier for me if I was born gay, but unfortunately I like the ladies and I can't help it.

So next question.

Gays are born gay(and so is every other gay animal for that matter)

So if God creates everything. Why does he keep creating them if he hates homosexuals? Does he draw pleasure of sending them to hell? Or is it just man made BS just to stone to death some more people?

A lot of what's written in the Bible is hear say and not witness accounts. So the people who write the sh*t down make up some just for good measure.

God... hates homosexuals
(not in the Bible)

(not in the Bible)

Good :)

So it is man made BS

can somebody make debate on this topic???lol

and when did you become a mod to call down the "lockzorz"?

Berishmen likes to pretend he is a mod.

I wasn't calling lockzorz on this thread.

I was saying that if I made the thread about harry potter saying dark magic is bad, that it would get locked. read my entire post next time, mmkay?

;)

You desperately need to talk to a legit theologian. In the Bible, God didn't destroy those cities because of homosexuality.

correct it was because it was peverse

What the hell? I post up an opinion and I have people recommending I come out of the closet? Sorry I insulted your encyclopedic knowledge of everything homosexual.

Since you're all so positive about this I'd love to see the studies you're siting. I'm not saying that I'm correct, only that your point hasn't been proven.

And being born gay and choosing to be gay aren't the only two options, I was implying that influences in your environment growing up would sway your sexuality. That is what I believe, that whether you have a traumatic or a perfect childhood some sort of influence, or series of influences, decides for you.

Thanks for the whitty and snappy replies, they all stung a lot, I'll refrain from giving my opinion and go question my sexuality now.

^ Because your opinion is based on no evidence whatsoever.

There is nothing wrong with thinking A, B, or C - but when you make a statement such as "I dont think gay people are born that way" - you must, at the very least, provide something to back it up.

If I said "I dont think carnivores eat meat" then I'd expect the same sort of replies you're receiving, because I'm making a factual statement based on my opinion alone...and that alone is stupid.

^ Because your opinion is based on no evidence whatsoever.

There is nothing wrong with thinking A, B, or C - but when you make a statement such as "I dont think gay people are born that way" - you must, at the very least, provide something to back it up.

If I said "I dont think carnivores eat meat" then I'd expect the same sort of replies you're receiving, because I'm making a factual statement based on my opinion alone...and that alone is stupid.
but you see you aren't quoting any facts either, I asked you to and you still didn't provide anything.

Quite stupid would be assuming your opinion is right because you posted it first. I gave my opinion, you gave yours, and now you're calling mine wrong because I have no proof when you have none yourself. The inconsistency is mind boggling Batman.

And using your infallible truth of homosexuality how do you explain people that at different times in their life are on both sides? Are they telling themselves the wrong thing as so many have said is impossible?

Lay off the insults and discuss like an adult. Seriously, you're going to talk down to me and tell me I've reached "a level of stupidity, intellectually"? The childishness and lack of direction is your argument is crazy. You try making the analogy that I'm saying carnivores don't eat meat, when in reality I've said nothing near such and its only you seeing what I've said as wrong in your eyes that you argument makes any more sense than mine.

So please, again, provide proof.

Further, since I want to end this.

sited from - http://www.avert.org/hsexu2.htm
In 1993 the American researcher Dean Hamer published research that seemed to prove that homosexual orientation could be genetically transmitted to men on the x chromosome, which they get from their mothers. However when this study was duplicated it did not produce the same results. A follow-up study which Hamer collaborated on also failed to reinforce his earlier results. Most recently research published in April 1999 by George Rice and George Ebers of the Universty of Western Ontario has cast doubt on Hamer's theory. Rice and Ebers' research also tested the same region of the x chromosome in a larger sample of gay men, but failed to find the same 'marker' that Hamer's research had produced. Claims that the part of the brain known as the hypothalamus is influential in determining sexual orientation, have yet to be substantiated. At the moment it is generally thought that biological explanations of sexuality are insufficient to explain the diversity of human sexuality.

and further.

Psycho-social explanations offer a variety of factors that could contribute to the development of a person's homosexuality. For example, a female dominated upbringing in a gay man's past, with an absence of a male role model. Others stress adherence or deviance from conformity to gender roles, and individual psychological makeup. While none of these factors alone completely answers the question 'what causes homosexuality?', they rule out some things. For example, lesbian and gay young people are not 'failed' heterosexuals. Also, homosexual partners are generally of the same age proving wrong the assumptions that young people are 'turned gay' by older people.

What is clear is that people's behaviour is influenced by their family environment, their experiences and their sense of themselves. Beliefs about sex are initially shaped by family values. Later on these beliefs may be shaped by pleasant and unpleasant experiences of sex and also shape their choice of activities and partners. Throughout their life a person's sense of who and what they are has a strong impact on their sexual development and experience.

How does your foot taste? About as it should for how childish you where.

but you see you aren't quoting any facts either, I asked you to and you still didn't provide anything.

Because YOUR making the claim, the onus is on YOU, not us. It's like those idiots who tell me "Oh yea! You think God doesn't exist? Prove it!. The point is, you can't disprove something that doesn't exist, in this case, the 'gay' gene.

Quite stupid would be assuming your opinion is right because you posted it first. I gave my opinion, you gave yours, and now you're calling mine wrong because I have no proof when you have none yourself. The inconsistency is mind boggling Batman.

No, you made a factual statement based on your own opinion, I told you that until you provide hard-core evidence then it's a stupid opinion to hold. If you believe that, on mars, lives an orange unicorn then until you provide evidence, that opinion will be looked at as meaningless.

And using your infallible truth of homosexuality how do you explain people that at different times in their life are on both sides? Are they telling themselves the wrong thing as so many have said is impossible?

I don't recall ever hearing that, but nonetheless the answer is simple: they're bisexuals. They can admit it or they can not, either way, it doesn't matter. If you're a man and have had sexual feelings about men, then you are gay. You don't get horny one day and straight the next. If you're "into" both then you're a bisexual.

So please, again, provide proof.

Further, since I want to end this.

sited from - http://www.avert.org/hsexu2.htm

In 1993 the American researcher Dean Hamer published research that seemed to prove that homosexual orientation could be genetically transmitted to men on the x chromosome, which they get from their mothers. However when this study was duplicated it did not produce the same results. A follow-up study which Hamer collaborated on also failed to reinforce his earlier results. Most recently research published in April 1999 by George Rice and George Ebers of the Universty of Western Ontario has cast doubt on Hamer's theory. Rice and Ebers' research also tested the same region of the x chromosome in a larger sample of gay men, but failed to find the same 'marker' that Hamer's research had produced. Claims that the part of the brain known as the hypothalamus is influential in determining sexual orientation, have yet to be substantiated. At the moment it is generally thought that biological explanations of sexuality are insufficient to explain the diversity of human sexuality.

Did you even read that? Or did you just google "proof that being gay is a choice" ? I mean, I didn't think you were dumb until you just posted 'proof' that is completely against you, let's analyze it:

In 1993 the American researcher Dean Hamer published research that seemed to prove that homosexual orientation could be (razz: seemed/could be is not scientific proof) genetically transmitted to men on the x chromosome, which they get from their mothers. However when this study was duplicated it did not produce the same results (razz: GEE, I wonder why!). A follow-up study which Hamer collaborated on also failed to reinforce his earlier results (razz: FAILED TO REINFORCE HIS RESULTS, Did you even read this?). Most recently research published in April 1999 by George Rice and George Ebers of the Universty of Western Ontario has cast doubt on Hamer's theory. Rice and Ebers' research also tested the same region of the x chromosome in a larger sample of gay men, but failed to find the same 'marker' that Hamer's research had produced. Claims that the part of the brain known as the hypothalamus is influential in determining sexual orientation, have yet to be substantiated. At the moment it is generally thought that biological explanations of sexuality are insufficient to explain the diversity of human sexuality.

Now on to your second piece of 'evidence'

Psycho-social explanations (razz: Whoa whoa whao! Psycho-social? This isn't science at all!)offer a variety of factors that could contribute to the development of a person's homosexuality. For example, a female dominated upbringing in a gay man's past, with an absence of a male role model (razz: Then explain the significant of a female upbringing that results in heteorsexuals. If we're going to connect homosexuals with a common fabric, then we can do the same to any other 'group' of people. That doesn't make it proof or even correct). Others stress adherence or deviance from conformity to gender roles, and individual psychological makeup. While none of these factors alone completely answers the question 'what causes homosexuality?', they rule out some things. For example, lesbian and gay young people are not 'failed' heterosexuals. Also, homosexual partners are generally of the same age proving wrong the assumptions that young people are 'turned gay' by older people. (razz: Last two statements prove my point, not yours)

What is clear is that people's behaviour is influenced by their family environment, their experiences and their sense of themselves. Beliefs about sex are initially shaped by family values. Later on these beliefs may be shaped by pleasant and unpleasant experiences of sex and also shape their choice of activities and partners. Throughout their life a person's sense of who and what they are has a strong impact on their sexual development and experience. (razz: This is NOT EVIDENCE at all. This is an opinion made by people who think, just like you believe, that their opinions hold any significance on REAL factual statements. Of course beliefs about SEX are shaped by family values, but what does that mean in relation to heterosexuals/homosexuals? That gay people had parents who were likely to support homosexuals? I dont think so! )

That's the best you got? A Psycho-social explanation that is easily dismissed by the psychological community? Dare I say that I've never seen such pathetic "evidence" for anything in my life?

Waste of money and time researching homosexuality because in the end nothing is wrong with it.
People should stop researching BS and start researching stuff that truly matters.

you cant go into a religeon and politics section and use biblical references to back up your claims. The people who disagree with you are the people who don't believe the bible, so what you said has absolutely no meaning.

alright Razz, you keep making the same argument, that I'm making a factual statement with my opinion, and that I need proof for it. You keep coming up with these rediculous sounding analogies to make me sound stupid but still all your entire argument is that I need proof, and you don't.

and you must have poor reading comprehension with your replies to my findings. A man claimed he found the gay gene, but his results have never been able to be repeated, even when he attempted to repeat them.

And the psycho-social results you loved to make fun of because they're not science? Congratulations! They are results that are in line with my belief of homosexuality which I never tried playing off, as you have, as the one and only truthful explanation of homosexuality through science. I thought that homosexuality was caused by social and psychological events and I found research that is in line with that. By no means the definite answer, but much better than anything you've provided.

Cliff Notes:
-Your argument is that you are right, and since I defer from you I need to provide proof.
-Thats fine, but you provide no proof that you're right to begin with.
-You relating my opinion to a story of orange unicorns on Mars in an attempt to make my opinion look less credible instead of arguing any fact.
-You ignore that I never offered my opinion as the truth, only as an explanation.
-You ignore or misunderstand the hard proof I provide about a researcher who "found the "gay gene" being passed around, (gay from birth) but couldn't even duplicate his own findings, meaning, they're wrong. If you count the three studies it shows two out of three, there is no "gay gene", if you count the initial study, which can't be repeated, as false, then the score is two to zero, no "gay gene"

So, for the third time Razz, provide proof to your argument. Quit trying to debase mine with stories of your favorite animals and bright colors. If I'm making such an obviously stupid comment you should have no problem finding the proof you need. So please, lets see it, or at least give me an apology for your comment about me reaching, "a level of stupidity, intellectually."

I know kids that were brought in a completley normal environment, no different than any other straight person. They turned out to be Bisexual/Homosexual. One of them that is bisexual was brought up in a very anti-homosexual/anti-bisexual christian home.

I don't think environment has anything to do with it.

From my point of view, nothing could have influenced me away from thinking boobies and snatch are the best things on earth. Women smell great to me. I like how they walk and talk. When I was a youngster I saw boobs and got a chubby, it was instantaneous and natural and I didn't need to choose it. End of story.

I agree that nothing "turns you gay"

If a person is with someone of their oposite sex and then has another partner of the same sex that doesnt mean the second person has pushed them towards homosexuality. As Skateyasha said bisexual people are people who experiment. The person in question would not be sure if they were straight or homosexual therefore they could enjoy both, until they find one they like better because of what they naturally feel even if they hadnt quite figured it out

I think some people may not even consider the possibility they are gay until early on in life (okay not that old, around 20s or so) because they are straight by default. They are ok with that so they don't experiment with the other sex until they do.. and that's when they really get conscious of their sexual attraction. It probably sounds stupid but I believe it can be quite true. Even if most people know they are gay at the same age straight people know they are straight, which is quite logical..

alright Razz, you keep making the same argument, that I'm making a factual statement with my opinion, and that I need proof for it. You keep coming up with these rediculous sounding analogies to make me sound stupid but still all your entire argument is that I need proof, and you don't.

Reno, what is it that you don't understand?

You're asking me to disprove your claim that homosexuality is a choice and I made it very clear that you can not disprove something that doesn't exist. Imagine if I had made a claim that said "I once saw Reno entering a gay strip club" - now, at first you'd call this claim ridiculous, right? What if I had said "until you prove you NEVER went there then I rest my case" - is that fair? Is it?

Do you get it now? The onus is on you to prove that it is a choice (just as the onus would be on me to prove you went to that club), I can not bring scientific proof to DISPROVE your claim.

and you must have poor reading comprehension with your replies to my findings. A man claimed he found the gay gene, but his results have never been able to be repeated, even when he attempted to repeat them.

Sorry, but you CANT read...that is NOT what is says. It says that it WAS repeated and FAILED.

And the psycho-social results you loved to make fun of because they're not science? Congratulations! They are results that are in line with my belief of homosexuality which I never tried playing off, as you have, as the one and only truthful explanation of homosexuality through science. I thought that homosexuality was caused by social and psychological events and I found research that is in line with that. By no means the definite answer, but much better than anything you've provided.

Yes...but I never asked for the psychosocial beliefs, rather I asked for scientific proof. Psychoanalysis of human behavior is nothing more than a weak attempt to that comes up with a precarious conclusion; that is not science, that is pseudoscience.

If you line up your beliefs with pseudoscientific findings then I feel sorry for you.


Cliff Notes:
-Your argument is that you are right, and since I defer from you I need to provide proof. (razz: Again, it is impossible to prove something that isn't there to begin with)

-Thats fine, but you provide no proof that you're right to begin with.
-You relating my opinion to a story of orange unicorns on Mars in an attempt to make my opinion look less credible instead of arguing any fact.
(razz: Just as you can't disprove orange unicorns on Mars, I can not disprove your 'gay gene' claims. )

-You ignore that I never offered my opinion as the truth, only as an explanation.
(razz: But it makes no sense, that's what I'm saying. You were complaing about how everyone was jumping all over you, and I showed you why. )

-You ignore or misunderstand the hard proof I provide about a researcher who "found the "gay gene" being passed around, (gay from birth) but couldn't even duplicate his own findings, meaning, they're wrong. If you count the three studies it shows two out of three, there is no "gay gene", if you count the initial study, which can't be repeated, as false, then the score is two to zero, no "gay gene"
(razz: Dude what are you talking about? That wasn't hard proof, read THE D*MN ARTICLE. He claimed to have discovered a gay gene, the tests were repeated (as science does) and found no correlation. His findings were weak, fallible, and never given any serious credentials.)


So, for the third time Razz, provide proof to your argument. Quit trying to debase mine with stories of your favorite animals and bright colors. If I'm making such an obviously stupid comment you should have no problem finding the proof you need. So please, lets see it, or at least give me an apology for your comment about me reaching, "a level of stupidity, intellectually."

No, if you're making such an obviously stupid comment then to find proof against it is impossible, simply because it's so stupid to be measurable by anything.

none of that is proven.

I personally don't believe you're born gay.

do you decide who you fall in love with? neither do they.

Razz, what do you not understand? You have no proof that I am the one making a misunderstanding besides what you have said. You're getting so off track with this that its not even funny any more.

Your not even arguing that you're right any more just that I'm wrong. So lets assume I'm wrong, that shouldn't be hard, hell, you're already convinced. All I want, all I've asked for and all you have not been able to provide is the proof, on your side of the argument that you're right. Forget disproving me, forget arguing my points, just provide the damn studies that make you so right. Thats all I want! And you're arguing semantics about my point and my wording instead of bring your solid evidence.

So please, for the forth time, show me the proof that makes you right, the study you've read where you read that people are homosexual from birth.

OK, since we've concluded that you can't prove your point, I'll give you reasons for mine:

• It's estimated that 10-12% (Indiana University Kinsey Reports, Homosexuality/Heterosexuality by McWhirter, Sanders, and Reinisch, The Janus Report on Sexual Behavior) of the world population is homosexual
• A July 2007 estimate claims that there are 6,602,224,175 humans in the world
• 10% (avg of 10-12%) of 6,602,224,175 is 660,222,418
• It is absolutely pathetic for me to assume that 660M+ are part of a world-wide conspiracy that CHOOSE to become sexual attracted to the same gender
• I can't see why a 14 year old boy would choose to be gay and get picked on
• I can't see how you can choose to love another man one day and be attracted to girls the next
• Homosexuality occurs in nature by various other species
• Gay people come out of every culture, every religion
• I can't choose to be gay
• There has never been ANY evidence whatsoever that proved it was a choice

Is that good?

Now you're just being annoying. You basic lack of the basics of debating is sad. To quote from page one.

It has been proven that homosexuals know from childhood, the same time when heterosexuals have feelings.
Its be proven, that people know from childhood they're homosexual, yet you cannot provide any proof? Odd.

Further, your now provide, proof, or truth, that you're born homosexual is that there are a lot of homosexuals in the world, and you don't believe they'd purposely make themselves different. There where also a lot of people that believed the world was flat, it didn't make it. You also try to argue again that I think people choose to be gay. I think people no more choose to be gay than I choose to like celery or how I dislike eggs or even how I prefer brunette to blonde. Influences in your life from events in your environment, or events in your personality (psyche), alter you to where you find the same sex attractive.

you also continue and make the argument that because you could not turn yourself gay and I'm assuming, have never had any doubts, that every one must be born either gay or straight.

your final point is the crushing blow that there has never been any evidence to support it was a choice. Seeing how I have about as much evidence as you do I'd say thats a foolish statement to make. I have the evidence that psychologists are looking into it as an option. If you don't believe in sociology or psychology you have some much larger problems that I won't get into.

in conclusion, neg rep for calling me stupid with none of this hard evidence you like so much.

To me, the existence of bisexuals speaks to the idea that sexuality is not a choice but an inclination. If it were definitely a choice, one way or the other, then it wouldn't account for those who choose both ways.

Then again, maybe nature, in all its variety, has made sexuality a choice for some and not for others. Sometimes the answers to questions are not clearly one way or the other, either.

Now you're just being annoying. You basic lack of the basics of debating is sad. To quote from page one.

It has been proven that homosexuals know from childhood, the same time when heterosexuals have feelings.

Its be proven, that people know from childhood they're homosexual, yet you cannot provide any proof? Odd.

Yes, they DO know that they're gay...what else are you claiming they know? Are they all just lying when they say they've known from childhood that they're gay? You're denying that? Are you actually suggesting that they're just duping us? Unbelievable, what an idiot...

Further, your now provide, proof, or truth, that you're born homosexual is that there are a lot of homosexuals in the world, and you don't believe they'd purposely make themselves different.

So you think 660,000,000+ people are purposely lying? That's your logic? You actually know how to turn on a computer and, at the same time, believe that 660M+ people are part of some world-wide conspiracy concealing their homosexuality? I can't believe this...

There where also a lot of people that believed the world was flat, it didn't make it.

What a stupid stupid stupid analogy. Believing the world was flat and knowing you're gay are two completely different issues. One is extraneous and WAS NOT MEASURABLE while a person's own sexuality, to each person, is. There is a difference between 'thinking' the earth is flat and 'knowing' you're gay.

You also try to argue again that I think people choose to be gay. I think people no more choose to be gay than I choose to like celery or how I dislike eggs or even how I prefer brunette to blonde. Influences in your life from events in your environment, or events in your personality (psyche), alter you to where you find the same sex attractive.

Where is the evidence? It makes no sense to me about this 'influences' in your life crap. You were influenced to like women? You, in other words, chose to be heterosexual? If that's the case then I suggest you question your sexuality sir...

you also continue and make the argument that because you could not turn yourself gay and I'm assuming, have never had any doubts, that every one must be born either gay or straight.

Yes, either gay, straight, bisexual, or asexual. No one chooses their sexual orientation just as no one chooses the color of their skin.

your final point is the crushing blow that there has never been any evidence to support it was a choice. Seeing how I have about as much evidence as you do I'd say thats a foolish statement to make. I have the evidence that psychologists are looking into it as an option. If you don't believe in sociology or psychology you have some much larger problems that I won't get into.

Let's go by your logic:

"Can you prove love? What's that, you can't? Guess it's 50-50 on whether or not it exists"

"Can you prove gravity? I can't see it, it's just purple unicorns pushing us down! What? You can't disprove that? Guess it's 50-50 on whether or not it exists"

"Can you prove that you were born black? What's that? No..I don't buy that, I believe the doctor made you black using a secret scientific method...until you prove otherwise, guess it's 50-50 on whether or not it's true"

"Can you prove the sun rose today? No, I don't buy that...I think it was just space aliens holding a flash light, guess it's 50-50 on whether or not that's true"

As you can see, it's just plain stupid to believe the evidence is even on both sides simply because you can't prove/disprove it.

I can't believe, in the 21st century, there are still people who believe that sexual orientation is a choice. http://www.skaterscafe.com/images/icons/nope.gif

I read one sentence into this and already see you are failing at the reading again.

I have never said that these "they" that you speak of are lying, or that they don't know, good for them if they do. But you still cannot provide the proof, the documents, the interviews, anything other than your word that "they where born gay, and its proven."

this is so damn retarded at this point, you are not providing any proof of your statement and are so far beyond trying to twist my words that you're flat out ignoring them and saying that I've said the exact opposite, even when I make a point of telling you that I am not making that statement.

Holy hell, my world is flat analogy is dumb? You said that my opinion is equal to orange unicorns living on Mars, and when I asked for proof otherwise, you didn't pull up the photos from NASA that showed mars was dead, or the interviews with top scientists that said there was no life on mars, you simple said. "not all of these people can be lying, so it must be true."

I'm not saying that they don't know from young they're gay, I'm not saying that they consciously choose to be gay, I'm saying that I believe environmental influences make you homosexual.

Me choosing to be hetero? I can't explain it, I saw my two hetero parents, I knew Bugs Bunny looked gross in a dress, and some how I turned out straight, some people see the same thing and turn out gay. It takes some one wiser than you or I do determine how this happens.

All I know is you called me, and I quote, stupid, for something that you have no proof of. You can't quote on paper, on study, on statistic, one of anything.

I never made any of the statements listed. You're trying to make the point, by using skin color, that being gay is something genetic, as has been proven wrong, and you yourself pointed out.

Because you are so simple, and have such a hard time making sense of one point, lets stick to that.

Is anyone in this thread so stupid to believe that it's scientifically impossible for someone to make a choice to become gay? Is every sexual desire engraved into us at birth?
Is this scenario scientifically possible, or is it a complete scientific impossiblity.....

Jimmy went through his teens chasing and dating allot of girls. The idea of getting it on with a male repulsed him. He was really into asian chicks because he thought they were petite and usually had good figures.
Eventually jimmy grew to love a girl who happened to be very experimental and introduced him to new ways to have sex. He watched allot of porn and came across threesomes. the more time went on the less it bothered him seeing the second guy in orgies. So one day jimmys girlfriend organized to introduce a second guy into their sex.
Jimmy wasnt particularly attracted to the guy but went along with it.
Jimmy was surprised because this guy was able to stimulate him in ways his girlfriend had not. It was kinda a cross between being scared and curious.
So jimmy went on with his experimentation and got more involved with gay friends and communities. One day he meet a asian dude who just seemed perfect for him. he was kind of like every thing jimmy could want in a woman, except he was a man.
Jimmi grew to love this man and by this stage had lost almost all interest in heterosexual sex. So they lived together and poked eachothers crap all day. THE END

So even if some makes a choice would that mean everyone did make a choice? No.

Why can't you choose? I can't choose because guys doesn't turn me on, at all.

So even if some makes a choice would that mean everyone did make a choice? No.

Noone here said anything close to that.
But they have denied people CAN make that choice.
I dont think people are born attracted to fluffy leather whips. But in time they develop a kinky fetish.
Why would it be so impossible for someone to change and develop in their sexual attraction?

It's not impossible but does animals do that as well?

Is anyone in this thread so stupid to believe that it's scientifically impossible for someone to make a choice to become gay? Is every sexual desire engraved into us at birth?
Is this scenario scientifically possible, or is it a complete scientific impossiblity.....

Jimmy went through his teens chasing and dating allot of girls. The idea of getting it on with a male repulsed him. He was really into asian chicks because he thought they were petite and usually had good figures.
Eventually jimmy grew to love a girl who happened to be very experimental and introduced him to new ways to have sex. He watched allot of porn and came across threesomes. the more time went on the less it bothered him seeing the second guy in orgies. So one day jimmys girlfriend organized to introduce a second guy into their sex.
Jimmy wasnt particularly attracted to the guy but went along with it.
Jimmy was surprised because this guy was able to stimulate him in ways his girlfriend had not. It was kinda a cross between being scared and curious.
So jimmy went on with his experimentation and got more involved with gay friends and communities. One day he meet a asian dude who just seemed perfect for him. he was kind of like every thing jimmy could want in a woman, except he was a man.
Jimmi grew to love this man and by this stage had lost almost all interest in heterosexual sex. So they lived together and poked eachothers crap all day. THE END

Hey, whatever floats Jimmy's boat. I'm not so judgmental as to care about what Jimmy wants, or to agree with some old book that he's going to hell for it, or that he should go to hell for it, or that Jimmy shouldn't be allowed to marry his boyfriend. Even if it is a choice, I couldn't possibly care less. It's Jimmy's life, it's what makes Jimmy happy, and it doesn't concern me whatsoever. I am not compelled to poke my nose in Jimmy's business.

pwned

I read one sentence into this and already see you are failing at the reading again.

Unfortunately that's probably all you were able to read. It sure does suck when your arguments are so pathetic that you resort to red herrings.

Holy hell, my world is flat analogy is dumb? You said that my opinion is equal to orange unicorns living on Mars, and when I asked for proof otherwise, you didn't pull up the photos from NASA that showed mars was dead, or the interviews with top scientists that said there was no life on mars, you simple said. "not all of these people can be lying, so it must be true."

That analogy did one very good thing and prove that just because you can not disprove something it does not, in the slightest, make it true.

I'm not saying that they don't know from young they're gay, I'm not saying that they consciously choose to be gay, I'm saying that I believe environmental influences make you homosexual.

I know what you're saying, and I'm saying it's stupid. There is no debate there. Until you tell me what these environmental influences are I will continue taking it as nothing more than a stupid opinion.

Me choosing to be hetero? I can't explain it, I saw my two hetero parents, I knew Bugs Bunny looked gross in a dress, and some how I turned out straight, some people see the same thing and turn out gay. It takes some one wiser than you or I do determine how this happens.

Before we move on, did you just admit you chose to be straight?

Is anyone in this thread so stupid to believe that it's scientifically impossible for someone to make a choice to become gay? Is every sexual desire engraved into us at birth?
Is this scenario scientifically possible, or is it a complete scientific impossiblity.....

Jimmy went through his teens chasing and dating allot of girls. The idea of getting it on with a male repulsed him. He was really into asian chicks because he thought they were petite and usually had good figures.
Eventually jimmy grew to love a girl who happened to be very experimental and introduced him to new ways to have sex. He watched allot of porn and came across threesomes. the more time went on the less it bothered him seeing the second guy in orgies. So one day jimmys girlfriend organized to introduce a second guy into their sex.
Jimmy wasnt particularly attracted to the guy but went along with it.
Jimmy was surprised because this guy was able to stimulate him in ways his girlfriend had not. It was kinda a cross between being scared and curious.
So jimmy went on with his experimentation and got more involved with gay friends and communities. One day he meet a asian dude who just seemed perfect for him. he was kind of like every thing jimmy could want in a woman, except he was a man.
Jimmi grew to love this man and by this stage had lost almost all interest in heterosexual sex. So they lived together and poked eachothers crap all day. THE END

What kind of straight guy "experiments" with other men?

SL, is there something you're trying to tell us? Have you ever experimented with men, and if not, using your logic, how do we know you're really not gay? So you have two choices:

Either:
A) You're straight because you've slept with other men before and realized it wasnt you thing
or
B) You're unsure whether you'd enjoy stimulation from a man and are open for such experiences in the future.


Which is it? Not that there's anything wrong with being gay, I'll stand up for you...just not behind you...
Merging doublepost
Sorry, had to post this, we had a debate like this on another forum and SL's post reminded of this guy - we took a screenshot of his post, I never laughed so hard in my life:

http://i17.tinypic.com/6xkuvlz.jpg

Reno. Are you trying to say that you, yourself, could decide to be gay and enjoy it? BY DECISION? no? ok.

I beleive it's either something genetic that causes someone to be gay, or possibly the environment they grew up in which affected how their mind works. Either way it certainly is not a decision. LOL at the thought of that.

And being born gay and choosing to be gay aren't the only two options, I was implying that influences in your environment growing up would sway your sexuality. That is what I believe, that whether you have a traumatic or a perfect childhood some sort of influence, or series of influences, decides for you.

Reno. Are you trying to say that you, yourself, could decide to be gay and enjoy it? BY DECISION? no? ok.

I believe it's either something genetic that causes someone to be gay, or possibly the environment they grew up in which affected how their mind works. Either way it certainly is not a decision. LOL at the thought of that.

That's what he's saying too.

I don't claim to know what causes homosexuality in people, but choice is not the only alternative to genetics.

^ ah rightio, glad to see we're both on the same wavelength ;)

That's what he's saying too.

I don't claim to know what causes homosexuality in people, but choice is not the only alternative to genetics.

thank God for you Chewy, one person in here that is actually reading posts.

Razz, I'm done arguing with you, you obviously can't reason, make even a basic argument, understand the definition of "proven", or admit your mistake and drop it. So I leave you with this, your own words, quoted from this thread, to show to any who do come through this thread, how idiotic you truly are.

It has been proven that homosexuals know from childhood, the same time when heterosexuals have feelings.

Taken from dictionary.com, since you seem to be confused.
prove (prōōv)
v. proved, proved or prov·en (prōō'vən), prov·ing, proves
1. To establish the truth or validity of by presentation of argument or evidence.

and now your "proof" which instead of any Scientifically "proven" (remember when you used that word?) was a statistic about the number of homosexuals in the world. Not even closely related.
OK, since we've concluded that you can't prove your point, I'll give you reasons for mine:

• It's estimated that 10-12% (Indiana University Kinsey Reports, Homosexuality/Heterosexuality by McWhirter, Sanders, and Reinisch, The Janus Report on Sexual Behavior) of the world population is homosexual
• A July 2007 estimate claims that there are 6,602,224,175 humans in the world
• 10% (avg of 10-12%) of 6,602,224,175 is 660,222,418
• It is absolutely pathetic for me to assume that 660M+ are part of a world-wide conspiracy that CHOOSE to become sexual attracted to the same gender
• I can't see why a 14 year old boy would choose to be gay and get picked on
• I can't see how you can choose to love another man one day and be attracted to girls the next
• Homosexuality occurs in nature by various other species
• Gay people come out of every culture, every religion
• I can't choose to be gay
• There has never been ANY evidence whatsoever that proved it was a choice

Is that good?
Sorry you fail so horribly.

thank God for you Chewy, one person in here that is actually reading posts.

Razz, I'm done arguing with you, you obviously can't reason, make even a basic argument, understand the definition of "proven", or admit your mistake and drop it. So I leave you with this, your own words, quoted from this thread, to show to any who do come through this thread, how idiotic you truly are.

Are you seriously that dumb?

You honestly believe that homosexuals dont know, from childhood, that they're gay? Tell me then, when do you predict that someone finally discovers they're homsexual? 16? 25? 50? What is it?

If not from childhood, then when?

and now your "proof" which instead of any Scientifically "proven" (remember when you used that word?) was a statistic about the number of homosexuals in the world. Not even closely related.

Sorry you fail so horribly.

So you've ignored all my other points yet bring in new ones? Fine, I'll roll with that, but then again...you are the idiot making the claim are you not?

Prove to me that you were born a heterosexual, go ahead, do it. You're basically asking me to do the same thing are you not? So before you dodge this question (oooo I feel it coming), just try your best to PROVE to me that you were born a heterosexual.

When you're not able to (because you wont) then I'll rest my case, until then....

^Wouldn't being unable to prove that he's born heterosexual just prove Reno's point?

I read through this thread and it's kind of scary how much you misread his posts razz. He never said that people choose their sexuality. He just said that he didn't believe they were born with their sexuality imprinted on them. Instead, he thinks that it develops somehow.

He then provided a study which showed where a scientist thought he'd found the 'gay gene.' But the results of the study couldn't be duplicated, by the scientist or by others. Therefore, the results of the study can be ignored/discounted. Which means that we can assume that there is no 'gay gene,' or in other words, people aren't born with their sexuality.

In addition, from what I've seen from your posts, you don't believe that there is a 'gay gene,' which would determine whether or not someone was gay or not...when they were born. So if there's no determining factor genetically, how can someone possibly know that they are gay from birth?

~Christian

Sorry, Necro, but I think it's you guys who are not reading the posts...for example:

I read through this thread and it's kind of scary how much you misread his posts razz.
It has been proven that homosexuals know from childhood, the same time when heterosexuals have feelings.
how can someone possibly know that they are gay from birth?

I never said that as soon as an infant is cut from the umbilical cord he immediately knows he's homosexual. I said that homosexuals have claimed to have had sexual feelings towards those of the same-sex the same time as heterosexuals do. Now, the contention is this: either Reno is right and the estimated 660M+ gay people are liars, or I am right and assume that most of them are telling us the truth. I believe that it's only logical to assume that these people are not lying when they tell us it was natural of them.

In addition, from what I've seen from your posts, you don't believe that there is a 'gay gene,' which would determine whether or not someone was gay or not...when they were born. So if there's no determining factor genetically, how can someone possibly know that they are gay from birth?

Try to understand the debate that's going on here...

• First he claimed he believed it was a choice
• We debated his claim and then the debate between me & Reno took place
• He then claimed that it was possibly for environmental influences to affect a sexual orientation.

OK...so let's take his last statement at face value, let's just assume that society (or, inner-influences, such as their family) have affected the orientational preference of a child....does that still make it a choice?

If I was playing basketing during the rain and happened to slip and twist my ankle in the process, would you assume that I chose to have my ankle twisted because of the environmental influence the rain had on the concrete?

Therefore, the results of the study can be ignored/discounted. Which means that we can assume that there is no 'gay gene,' or in other words, people aren't born with their sexuality

When you decide on a sunny day to go out and skate, is it because you have a 'skate' gene?

When you decide to open the door for the elderly entering a grocery store, is it because you have a 'nice' gene?

When you're studying a day before a test is it because you have a 'gotta get good marks' gene?

The point is, something that you may (contrasting skateboarding with homosexuality) is not something you choose. Now wait, I know the reply: "But razz, I choose to skateboard" - Yes, that may definitely be the case, but you don't choose to love skateboarding, it's just something that you naturally like.

Whether or not there were outer or inner influences in the process, it doesn't mean you chose to love something; it just so happens that you're attracted to this particular thing, and just because there isn't a 'gene' associated it with it that does not, in the slightest, prove that it was a choice.

^Sorry, I missed the semantics in the first bit.

But still, Reno never claimed that people choose to be homosexual.

'I don't believe that people are born homosexual' does not equate to 'It is a fact that people choose to be homosexual.'

See?

~Christian

^ Right, I understand that it was his opinion, we just so happened to debate that. But bare with me, if someone says "I believe black people are inherently stupid" then yes, despite it being an opinion that doesn't mean it can't be challenged.

You can believe anything you want, but I believe I have the right to challenge it. And I hope people continue doing that to me because had they always respected everything I believed then I'd never have became an Atheist.

What about animals??? If they are not born gay how do they become gay? They are probably not as messed up as human beings.

Necro, finally, thank you.

Razz, you seem to be coming around to it.

Please show me where I posted saying that I thought it was a choice. I've only said that it hasn't been proven that you're born gay, and that since there is a lack of proof you're born gay, I believe that you are influenced at some point in your life.

To answer your question of age, I really have no idea, I've never thought about it that much, I would think fairly young, but maybe as old as the first time, at maybe 5-7 that you find some one attractive that you decide which you like, I really have no idea.

You also keep making the point that 660 million people can't be lying. You are making this statement of a statistic that I do believe, and have heard before (10% being gay) but you're making the assumption that I'm calling them a liar. I don't doubt they've like the same sex since young. I wouldn't doubt it if they said their first memory was liking the same sex. All I'm saying is that at some point in that time, influences in their life make that their belief, going back to my analogy of the eggs and celery, you don't actively decide whether or not you like eggs, and obviously it might change through your life, so it isn't a direct comparison to being homosexual, but the reaction of chemicals in your brain when you taste celery and like it or dislike it is in my eyes the same as when you look at a man and your subconsious, brain, whatever decides if he is attractive or unattractive.

Razz, please understand and I hope you can find it to apologize, that you called me stupid and my opinion idiotic, when you had no proof to support your point. I don't care if you misinterpreted my point up until now or if you've just recently felt bad about calling me stupid. I think you where way out of line.

SL, is there something you're trying to tell us? Have you ever experimented with men, and if not, using your logic, how do we know you're really not gay? So you have two choices:

Either:
A) You're straight because you've slept with other men before and realized it wasnt you thing
or
B) You're unsure whether you'd enjoy stimulation from a man and are open for such experiences in the future.


Which is it? Not that there's anything wrong with being gay, I'll stand up for you...just not behind you...

yeah great points, am i gay. ask my boyfriend.
and are you still telling me that it's scientifically impossible for someone sexality to change with experimentation and circumstance.
Just imagine you were stuck on a deserted island with skateyasha for years......

I know it's bad form to quote yourself, but I think this is worth stating again:


...maybe nature, in all its variety, has made sexuality a choice for some and not for others. Sometimes the answers to questions are not clearly one way or the other...

We can't go thinking nature is all one way or all the other without definitive proof. I've done it myself in this thread, and it is a close-minded way of looking at the issue. Maybe this issue is more gray than black and white.

What if it's no color at all???

Technically black, white, and gray are not colors, but now that I think about it, it's fucshia.

nature is green damnit, everyone knows that
Merging doublepost
edit,,
oh wait, i didnt read...
this issue is blue, definitely blue

Necro, finally, thank you.

Razz, you seem to be coming around to it.

Please show me where I posted saying that I thought it was a choice. I've only said that it hasn't been proven that you're born gay, and that since there is a lack of proof you're born gay, I believe that you are influenced at some point in your life.

It's sort of comical how you thank everyone who agrees with you, thanks for the laugh. What next, going to paypal them $100 with a love note?

You said "I dont believe they're born that way" so either you believe it's a choice or you're confused, which is it? You also said "I believe that you are influenced" - ok, what proof is this based on? Is this what you simply think? What do you base this on? Maybe we can get somewhere...

To answer your question of age, I really have no idea, I've never thought about it that much, I would think fairly young, but maybe as old as the first time, at maybe 5-7 that you find some one attractive that you decide which you like, I really have no idea.

Do we agree! omg!

I'm saying is that at some point in that time, influences in their life make that their belief, going back to my analogy of the eggs and celery, you don't actively decide whether or not you like eggs, and obviously it might change through your life, so it isn't a direct comparison to being homosexual, but the reaction of chemicals in your brain when you taste celery and like it or dislike it is in my eyes the same as when you look at a man and your subconsious, brain, whatever decides if he is attractive or unattractive.

Right, but do you understand what I'm saying? Environmental influences don't mean it's a choice either. But imagine it from my perspective for a second, what kind of evidence for environmental influeces are rational?

Think about it...

What kind of "influences" can effect 10% of the population? What is so different about these people?

Razz, please understand and I hope you can find it to apologize, that you called me stupid and my opinion idiotic, when you had no proof to support your point. I don't care if you misinterpreted my point up until now or if you've just recently felt bad about calling me stupid. I think you where way out of line.

I'm not going to apologize for thinking your opinion is stupid, then I'd be lying. I thought it was stupid then and still think it's stupid now. However, now that we're coming to terms on our sides (because I thought you presumed they made a mental & physical choice to be that way, it's satisfying to know that you aren't that stupid) but I still disagree with the influences thing because it doesn't make sense.

It would make sense to me if there was some underlying pattern involved, but there isnt...

Just imagine you were stuck on a deserted island with skateyasha for years......

We don't need to be on a deserted island to have our gay relationship, jokes on you

It's ok razz, I guess people just aren't gonna understand that we didn't CHOOSE to be gay.

[lmfao i'm not really gay]

:icon_kiss

It's ok razz, I guess people just aren't gonna understand that we didn't CHOOSE to be gay.

[lmfao i'm not really gay]

:icon_kiss

Don't lie Pauly, you know we didn't choose to be this way.

btw I LOVED the outfit you sent me :icon_hug:

Don't lie Pauly, you know we didn't choose to be this way.

btw I LOVED the outfit you sent me :icon_hug:

The dress was SO HAWT. I'm glad you liked it, wasn't too sure if you were into thongs or G-strings so i sent both. :icon_love

And if "God's Kingdom" was real I may believe you.

Its sort of comical how you call people names and make personal comments instead of arguing on any facts. Classic. I was also thanking Necro for reading the thread, understanding what was posted, and commenting, compared to making unproven, unfactual and remarks that are not even related to the argument like you have.

and further proof of my opinion being as valid, if not more so, than yours.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_caus.htm

they quote studies, papers, and lots of research, care to keep going? But no, lets boil this down to the basics.

-The exact cause of homosexuality has never been determined, no one can prove that its genes, environmental stimuli, brain chemistry, anything. I've looked at a lot of research through the course of the argument and haven't found anything conclusive one way or the other. (do you agree or disagree? If disagree, please quote a study, or research of some kind)
-You said it was proven that you where born gay. (your opinion, and unproven, making you incorrect for saying it was proven)
-I said thats it hasn't been proven. (true)
-I said that I believe its environmental (my opinion, and unproven)
-The argument ensued where you called me stupid for having my opinion, and in return I gave you negative rep for calling me stupid without having any proof to your point.
-You gave me negative rep because you wanted revenge.

My opinion:
-There is not a gay gene, so you are not born homosexual.
-Some combination of either environmental influences, or psychological influences cause you to be homosexual.
-Homosexuality is not a conscious choice you make.

Please, simply meet each one of these points with a simple reply, and put your opinion is a few short points so we can hopefully end this.

Let's see if we can do this and not get sidetracked?

Its sort of comical how you call people names and make personal comments instead of arguing on any facts. Classic. I was also thanking Necro for reading the thread, understanding what was posted, and commenting, compared to making unproven, unfactual and remarks that are not even related to the argument like you have.

and further proof of my opinion being as valid, if not more so, than yours.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_caus.htm

That source is pathetic I'm afraid, it isn't science, it's just some dogmatic websites that might as well set up their own theocracies on a deserted island. Here, I'll help you out, show me scientifically accepted proof of a trait associated with homosexuals that isn't applicable to heterosexuals...fair enough? Dont get offended like you always do, I'm being completely sincere here.

-The exact cause of homosexuality has never been determined, no one can prove that its genes, environmental stimuli, brain chemistry, anything. I've looked at a lot of research through the course of the argument and haven't found anything conclusive one way or the other. (do you agree or disagree? If disagree, please quote a study, or research of some kind)

I disagree only because I don't think it's possible for something to "cause" a sexual orientation, or better put, trigger it.

For example, I don't believe my love for (let's say, skateboarding) is triggered by a conscious choice.

-You said it was proven that you where born gay. (your opinion, and unproven, making you incorrect for saying it was proven)

I never said it was proven, I said it's only logical to assume you are. For example, I can not prove to you that the sun will rise tomorrow but isn't it the most logical thing to believe?

-I said that I believe its environmental (my opinion, and unproven)

But why do you say that? That's why people were all over you. Let me put it a different way, do you believe that heterosexuality is caused the same way?

-The argument ensued where you called me stupid for having my opinion, and in return I gave you negative rep for calling me stupid without having any proof to your point.
-You gave me negative rep because you wanted revenge.

I stand by it, I still think it's a stupid opinion....sue me?

My opinion:
-There is not a gay gene, so you are not born homosexual.

That is a logical fallacy, you've come to a conclusion "since A is not existent, B must be false"

Here's another question I'd like answered, what sort of traits are you born with? Forget the physical aspects (ie: born an asian, big eyes, etc) - but focus on the personality traits? Is someone born angry? etc?

-Some combination of either environmental influences, or psychological influences cause you to be homosexual.

There is no proof of that and if there is, I'd like to know what some of these are.

-Homosexuality is not a conscious choice you make.

Exactly, at least we have that out of the way...

Just saying, God dosen't hate anybody...

My opinion:
-There is not a gay gene, so you are not born homosexual.
-Some combination of either environmental influences, or psychological influences cause you to be homosexual.
-Homosexuality is not a conscious choice you make.


As long as you are aware that homosexuality for most isn't pick and choose. :icon_clap

Just saying, God dosen't hate anybody...

Then why do people go to hell?

I'm done arguing with some one thats too thick to absorb a basic sentence.

-You disagree that the cause of homosexuality hasn't been proven, and you disagree because you have an altering opinion, that sounds scientific. It shows your ignorance when you laugh at me for my lack of proof when you have none yourself.
-I love how much use this one quote is getting. Having a hard time keeping your story straight huh?
It has been proven that homosexuals know from childhood, the same time when heterosexuals have feelings.
I never said it was proven, I said it's only logical to assume you are. For example, I can not prove to you that the sun will rise tomorrow but isn't it the most logical thing to believe?
-Yes, I do believe the same environmental influences could make you heterosexual, most of the time the influences do make you heterosexual, it all depends on how your mind, or subconscious interprets them. Like my analogy of how I like Celery and others don't. There isn't a Celery liking gene, and you don't have 100% control of your body to decide if you like Celery or not, but something in the middle ground decides.
-Yes, you do try to look like a B.A. congrats, being a bully on the internet makes you so awesome. But awesome or not, its again a tell of your ignorance, telling me my opinion is wrong when you have no proof to yours.
-Let me rephrase, because I was confusing. There is no gay gene, so if your dad is gay, you aren't always gay, being gay isn't passed through genes like when you get your mothers blonde hair or grandmothers blue eyes.
-If I could list what influences made you gay, I'd be making a lot of money right now.

I'm getting really tired of saying it, but provide evidence to your statement. If you're so obviously right you should have no problem finding the facts needed to "prove it"

I'm done arguing with some one thats too thick to absorb a basic sentence.
Let me rephrase, because I was confusing.

LOL, how ironic...speaking of which, did you even read what I said?

It has been proven that homosexuals know from childhood, the same time when heterosexuals have feelings.I never said it was proven, I said it's only logical to assume you are. For example, I can not prove to you that the sun will rise tomorrow but isn't it the most logical thing to believe?

Let's analyze it IN IT'S CONTEXT...

You said it was proven that you where born gay. (your opinion, and unproven, making you incorrect for saying it was proven)
I never said it was proven, I said it's only logical to assume you are. For example, I can not prove to you that the sun will rise tomorrow but isn't it the most logical thing to believe?

How did you mix up knowing from childhood and knowing from birth?
Childhood (–noun ): the state of a child between infancy and adolescence

Did you not admit this was the case? No one can KNOW from birth that they're homosexual...or even heterosexual for that matter. I don't even know what we're debating here anymore because you seem to be contradicting yourself at every moment. Let's fix it:

• You claim that environmental influences is the result of homosexuality
• I said it still doesn't make it a choice whether or not it's true
• You agreed, then admitted you were confusing in your statements
• Where's the argument?

What's the debate right now? I believe you are born either a homosexual or heterosexual and don't "choose" either one...you keep asking why I believe this and I told you because it's logical to...

Did you choose to love skateboarding? You choose to skateboard, yes, but did you CHOOSE to love skateboarding?

Just like I said before, just as I believe the sun will rise tomorrow is the same way I believe that homosexuals are born that way. Either we both agree that it's not a choice (then the debate is settled) or you believe it is? Which is it?

Dude, that's totally uncool >:| GTFO

Pardon me, but this so-called "answer" is based on a story? Sweet.

Is there a red sun (negative rep)? If so, this guy is pretty darn close to earning one. lol. :tongue:

No thanks to me, I don't have the audacity to -rep anyone.

love is love and you cant stop it.

Homosexuality is so gay! Lol sorry... I think gays are often more loving than real couples. If gay marriage was legal I bet their divorce rates would be lower than straight couples.

I hate it when people get sent to those gay camps to get "fixed" all its really doing is hurting themselves. Let love live in whatever form it desires.

Homosexuality is so gay! Lol sorry... I think gays are often more loving than real couples. If gay marriage was legal I bet their divorce rates would be lower than straight couples.

I hate it when people get sent to those gay camps to get "fixed" all its really doing is hurting themselves. Let love live in whatever form it desires.
do you believe in god?

do you believe in god?

only sick and twisted people do so I hope he doesn't. Don't need more of those.

think gays are often more loving than real couples. If gay marriage was legal I bet their divorce rates would be lower than straight couples.

Why is a homosexual couple not a real couple?

man thats reading to much into god. god wants everyone to be happy and live in peaceful harmony. let people do what makes them happy. its nt hurting anyone so why should anyone care? i believe god wants the best for everyone, and whatever is best for you and doesnt hurt anyone is just fine with god.