Well, a lot of scientists believe in the big bang, and well if you think the big bang accualy happend does that mean you don't thing religion is correct?

Not religion, but Christianity in particular. If we take the Genesis account literally it'll tell us the world is 6,000 years old (which is idiotic).

Christian scientists most definitely exist. A lot of them (ie: Alistair McGrath) still believe in evolution and don't fall for the creationist crap.

I beleive in the big bang, I study physics and it all makes sense to me. You see, we measure the wavelengths of light from other galaxies that passes through certain gases. Now If we compare these wavelengths to the wavelengths of the same element on earth. We can see that these wavelengths are longer then the wavelengths found on earth.

This basically refers to the doppler effect. Now the doppler effect is say for example, when a police car with siren drives past you, the sound it makes gets higher pitched as it approaches you because the waves are being squashed together, and when it drives away, the wave gets stretched and therefore has a longer wavelength and a lower frequency, which is why the pitch drops.

Now back to the big bang theory, because the wavelengths of the light coming from other galaxies is longer "red shift" which means that the galaxy is travelling away from us at a higher speed. Which points out that everything is moving away from something at different speeds, hence the big bang theory.

[sorry for explaining the big bang lmfao]

Now, as for what christians would say, they would probably either say that, no the big bang did not happen. Or they would probably say that "god" made the big bang happen.

^ Not to mention, it's much easier to believe we started out 'simple' and then advanced. Just like evolution, we see that simple things can become more advanced according to their surroundings.

It's much, much, much, MUCH more difficult to believe that an active intelligence happened to always exist, and out of nowhere, and decided for whatever reason to make human beings. And after making humans, decided for whatever reason to come down and 'die' for our sins...because, he couldn't just forgive them...who does he think he is anyway? God? .... oh wait

And let's be honest, I mean, if God loves us and truly wants us all in Heaven, why not start us off there in the first place?

And let's be honest, I mean, if God loves us and truly wants us all in Heaven, why not start us off there in the first place?

I really don't know? possibly another flaw in their faith. And what gave the right for "god" to toy around with us if he exists? We didn't ask to be created, maybe he was just bored? naww he doesn't exist. I don't really fancy life in heaven for eternity, I mean, c'mon, do we really wanna be there forever and ever and ever? NO.

:icon_hug:

I've already pointed out in several posts that if a god exists it is sick and twisted and BORED OUT OF ITS MIND. Therefore even if it exists there is no point in worshiping it.

Obviously god could have created all with a big bang + evolution and the bible is just simple language for simple people. Although half the time it's literal and half the time it's metaphorical. Not only that it's pick and choose what makes more sense to the real world.

Oh and I wouldn't want to be stuck in heaven forever and ever. Seriously when I get old I want to die and rot away. What do you do there anyway? What appearance will you have? Your best appearance in your life you lived? Just walk and talk with god? I wouldn't talk to that crazy idiot even if I was paid with 40 sexually experienced hot women.

Wow, Dude that was inspiering all of it dude you three have changed my perspective on life thanks dudes that was some pretty hardcore ****!!

Whenever I read one of Razz's posts, I find it harder and harder to believe in God. Very insightful.

Whenever I read one of Razz's posts, I find it harder and harder to believe in God. Very insightful.

It's already super insanely extremely hard to believe in god.

^ Not to mention, it's much easier to believe we started out 'simple' and then advanced. Just like evolution, we see that simple things can become more advanced according to their surroundings.

It's much, much, much, MUCH more difficult to believe that an active intelligence happened to always exist, and out of nowhere, and decided for whatever reason to make human beings. And after making humans, decided for whatever reason to come down and 'die' for our sins...because, he couldn't just forgive them...who does he think he is anyway? God? .... oh wait

And let's be honest, I mean, if God loves us and truly wants us all in Heaven, why not start us off there in the first place?

Because he wanted us to have free will . He didnt want to just start us off he wanted to give us the choice to fallow him or not

Because he wanted us to have free will . He didnt want to just start us off he wanted to give us the choice to fallow him or not

Which proves how sick and twisted he is.

I've seen a ton of scientists quotes that say their science has done nothing more than reinforced their faith. They don't take the bible literally; as the bible is nothing more than an unexplained reference book on god, but still believe. A lot go along the lines of "I studied this for so long, the parameters for it existing are so perfect, one 1/100000000 of a difference would mean the world wouldn't exist, it is divine."
whether or not that is true is up to debate separately, but i believe that answers your question

^ Technically, any kind of "faith" can be interpreted to reinforce scientific findings as long as the scriptures are ambiguous. Muslim scientists are especially prone to this, they're obsessed with Qu'ranic science (google it).

^ Not to mention, it's much easier to believe we started out 'simple' and then advanced. Just like evolution, we see that simple things can become more advanced according to their surroundings.

It's much, much, much, MUCH more difficult to believe that an active intelligence happened to always exist, and out of nowhere, and decided for whatever reason to make human beings. And after making humans, decided for whatever reason to come down and 'die' for our sins...because, he couldn't just forgive them...who does he think he is anyway? God? .... oh wait

And let's be honest, I mean, if God loves us and truly wants us all in Heaven, why not start us off there in the first place?

jesus would of started us out in heaven but it goes back to one of the first stories in the bible adam and eve God gave them the chance to make the world sin free and they went ahead and did the one thing he told them not to do and ate the fruit therefore introducing sin into the world so God gave humans a chance through adam and eve and the failed to follow through

jesus would of started us out in heaven but it goes back to one of the first stories in the bible adam and eve God gave them the chance to make the world sin free and they went ahead and did the one thing he told them not to do and ate the fruit therefore introducing sin into the world so God gave humans a chance through adam and eve and the failed to follow through

Yes we punish people who weren't even born at the time where this took place...

I can see it now!

"Sorry boy you are going to jail because your great great great grand father murdered someone."

"Sorry boy you are going to jail because your great great great grand father murdered someone."
k i get ur point but see god gave adam and eve a chance and now he is giving us a chance by allowing us to accept jesus christ as our lord and savior and we can have eternal life in heaven

"Sorry boy you are going to jail because your great great great grand father murdered someone."
k i get ur point but see god gave adam and eve a chance and now he is giving us a chance by allowing us to accept jesus christ as our lord and savior and we can have eternal life in heaven

By didn't the judge that sentenced your great great grandfather get a chance as well? He was specifically told that "killing is wrong" and your great great grandfather violated that.

So I guess it's fair that you go to jail? Right krusty? If you were given a 50-year jail sentence you'd say it was fair, right?

Unless you're a hypocrite?

"Sorry boy you are going to jail because your great great great grand father murdered someone."
k i get ur point but see god gave adam and eve a chance and now he is giving us a chance by allowing us to accept jesus christ as our lord and savior and we can have eternal life in heaven

If got didn't want us to sin then why do you think he didn't just make us all perfect?

Sin, keeps us on track, If we were all perfect and never sinned what would be the point of me, you, earth ecs.

^What's the point of anything?

^What's the point of anything?

This is exactly what a lot of people don't get.

There isn't any point or meaning. We can all just kill ourselves.

Why don't we kill ourselves? Because living in awesome!

By didn't the judge that sentenced your great great grandfather get a chance as well? He was specifically told that "killing is wrong" and your great great grandfather violated that.

So I guess it's fair that you go to jail? Right krusty? If you were given a 50-year jail sentence you'd say it was fair, right?

Unless you're a hypocrite?

i never said that that was fair im saying that God gives us a chance and it is ur option to take it so if u dont take it it is ur fault

i never said that that was fair im saying that God gives us a chance and it is ur option to take it so if u dont take it it is ur fault

How do you know that it's God giving us that chance and not just some fairy-tale writings by a bunch of homophobic & misogynistic males?

How do you know that it's God giving us that chance and not just some fairy-tale writings by a bunch of homophobic & misogynistic males?


Because it's written in the bible so it must be true because the bible is the word of God because it says it is. So it must be true because the bible is the word of God etc etc.

Not religion, but Christianity in particular. If we take the Genesis account literally it'll tell us the world is 6,000 years old (which is idiotic).

Christian scientists most definitely exist. A lot of them (ie: Alistair McGrath) still believe in evolution and don't fall for the creationist crap.

for a christian to be an evolutionist is naive... and actually according to the bible the earth is ten thousand years old. and tell me whats idiotic... just assuming the world is 400, 000 000 000 years old isnt idiotic but pperfectly rational in all sences?

and people can beleive in the big bang theory and be religiouse, because the big bang theory is a theory of how the UNIVERSE(not earth) was "created"... take that into context and you see you can fully back god AND the big bang theory.

for a christian to be an evolutionist is naive... and actually according to the bible the earth is ten thousand years old. and tell me whats idiotic... just assuming the world is 400, 000 000 000 years old isnt idiotic but pperfectly rational in all sences?

and people can beleive in the big bang theory and be religiouse, because the big bang theory is a theory of how the UNIVERSE(not earth) was "created"... take that into context and you see you can fully back god AND the big bang theory.

Yes, because estimations based on experiments, studies, etc. is just ridiculous, reading out of book with no credibility is the way to go!

all books were written by the hands of men.

And man never lies? Never changes a story to give himself more power? Stories never get changed as the are told by word of mouth for years before someone finally decides to write down the now mutated form of the story?

...but the holy bible was inspired by god through the holy spirit who guided those men what to write. i mean, how were they to know all the way back then the earth was round?... the earth was thought to be flat untill a few hundred years ago.... open your eyes!

The Earth not being round? Hmm, science. Besides, I didn't know the Bible went into that. How about this for you. If these men are inspired by God, why didn't God have the decency to tell them that the Earth wasn't the center of the universe or even this galaxy and that it has an orbit? It would have saved Galileo a hell of a lot of trouble. He proved the Earth had an orbit but guess what these men you speak did exactly the opposite of what you said, they denied it, threatened Galileo with death if he didn't refute his claims. All this just to protect there delusions and to keep their power of the people.

they did not deny the earth has an orbit or anything of the sort, they simply wrote the earth was round, when it was beleived to be flat. they did not say, "the earth is at the center and everything orbits around it". nothing of the sort. so what are you talking about?

for a christian to be an evolutionist is naive... and actually according to the bible the earth is ten thousand years old. and tell me whats idiotic... just assuming the world is 400, 000 000 000 years old isnt idiotic but pperfectly rational in all sences?

What are you talking about? Science "doesn't" just assume something to be true, it's based on evidence and various dating methods to achieve an accurate representation of the earth age. You know what is assuming? When people idiotically assume that dinosaurs fossils are less than 10,000 years old...or when people assume a fairy tale book was a divine inspiration by a sadistical God.

It just fascinates me how you're so open to criticize science but never open to criticize your "religion" - I mean, if all the stuff you don't believe in science were simply written in a book by a bunch of men who said "God told em'" would you believe it then?

they did not deny the earth has an orbit or anything of the sort, they simply wrote the earth was round, when it was beleived to be flat. they did not say, "the earth is at the center and everything orbits around it". nothing of the sort. so what are you talking about?

No it didn't you idiot...

It NEVER said the Earth was round, or spherical, you dumb creationists think you can play with words...it said:

Isaiah 40:22
He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth,and its people are like grasshoppers.He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in.

CIRCLE, not sphere, not round, not anything that accurately resembles the earth now. Here's a CIRCLE, and it's FLAT:

http://images.usatoday.com/money/_photos/2006/11/20/inside-coin-side.jpg

That's flat, and that's circular. But no, the Bible doesn't stop there now does it? It also says:


Revelation 7:1
And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
Job 38:13
that it might take the earth by the edges, and shake the wicked out of it?


Four corners of the earth? Edges of the earth? Could you show me the 4 corners and edges on this?

http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/5291/finishedlgsphereds5.jpg

Or how about Psalm 104:5, when your God tells us "He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved." - It can never move, despite it moving on it's axis every second of every day?

Yes, the Christian Church did deny the Earth had an orbit, why didn't God tell them otherwise? They threatened Galileo with death if he didn't refute his claim publicly after proving the Earth orbited so why didn't God tell them the Earth orbited around the sun just like he told them the Earth is "round."

How do you know that it's God giving us that chance and not just some fairy-tale writings by a bunch of homophobic & misogynistic males?

ok it is ur choice 2 decide if its real but i believe it is real n ill go to heaven n u can say there is no heaven but wouldnt urather be safe than sorry
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razz on ur science post remember wat itold u be4 bout the real definition of science so ya that can be considered science

ok it is ur choice 2 decide if its real but i believe it is real n ill go to heaven n u can say there is no heaven but wouldnt urather be safe than sorry
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razz on ur science post remember wat itold u be4 bout the real definition of science so ya that can be considered science

No, your choice isn't better safe then sorry as if we were to take your advice then your choices would be Atheism, Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, etc. so in no way is your choice better safe than sorry.

Definition of science from dictionary.com

1. a branch of knowledge or study dealing with a body of facts or truths systematically arranged and showing the operation of general laws: the mathematical sciences.
2. systematic knowledge of the physical or material world gained through observation and experimentation.
3. any of the branches of natural or physical science.
4. systematized knowledge in general.
5. knowledge, as of facts or principles; knowledge gained by systematic study.
6. a particular branch of knowledge.
7. skill, esp. reflecting a precise application of facts or principles; proficiency.

Why can't creationism be considered science, I'll a reason pertaining to each definition of science on the list.

1. That God exist cannot be considered a fact or a truth for there is no credible evidence of it.
2. God according to creationism is neither physical nor material and cannot be observed or experimented with.
3. God is not physical.
4. In general, creationism's view of a creator is not "in general" several other religions have views of how we were created.
5. Again, God's existence is not a fact nor was the concept gained by systematic study but rather from an incredible book.
6. Again dictionary.com, knowledge- acquaintance with facts, truths, or principles, as from study or investigation; general erudition. God's existence is again not a fact or truth gained from study or investigation.
7. Again God's existence does not reflect precise application of facts or principles.

So krust09 what's the "real definition of science" and how does creationism/God fall under it.

first that better safe than sorry was pertaining to razz and atheists cuz they believe wen udie u just rought away so wat if heaven was real they would hav to suffer in hell but if ur christian n the atheists r right then it wont make a difference
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also the definition of science is the state of knowledge so since i kno crestionism is right then its a science

^I am an atheist and in no way and in no way are you better off than I am. There are many religions that claim to know what happens after you die. You could end up burning in hell right besides me if Islam has it right or if Judaism does.
Merging doublepost
also the definition of science is the state of knowledge so since i kno crestionism is right then its a science

Knowledge from dictionary.com:

acquaintance with facts, truths, or principles, as from study or investigation; general erudition. God's existence is again not a fact or truth gained from study or investigation.


God is not a fact, truth, or principle gained from study or investigation. Whether or not you "know" creationism is right is irrelevant. I know I am right about the existence of the FSM, is that a science now? No, creationism is not a science.

i never said i was better than u + all men r created equal so i guess im not but ok so if im wrong n one of there religions is right then i guess im goin 2 hell but im not scared of it cuz i truly believe im right but lets say i switch n my religion is right then im goin 2 hell so its best to pick 1 of these 3 religions n i picked christianity but u kno wat since u believe in atheism i guess ur screwed cuz there aint no way 4 u to get to heaven
Merging doublepost
^I am an atheist and in no way and in no way are you better off than I am. There are many religions that claim to know what happens after you die. You could end up burning in hell right besides me if Islam has it right or if Judaism does.
Merging doublepost


Knowledge from dictionary.com:



God is not a fact, truth, or principle gained from study or investigation. Whether or not you "know" creationism is right is irrelevant. I know I am right about the existence of the FSM, is that a science now? No, creationism is not a science.

i was going from websters so we both hav definitions of science from the dictionary so there is no way of telling the tru definition so as i see it were both right on our views of science

^Learn to read, I said better off. You're an idiot, you seem to have this idea that it is in everyone's mentality that their ultimate desire is to get into heaven. Heaven is a childish idea. Sure, according to my beliefs I'm not going to heaven but neither are you so I fail to see how I am "screwed." Honestly, do you take delight in the fact that you think you are going to heaven and I'm not? If so gaining happiness through another person's misfortune is just pathetic.
Merging doublepost
Knowledge from Websters:

2 a (1): the fact or condition of knowing something with familiarity gained through experience or association

Again, God is not a fact or condition of knowing gained through experience or association. The idea of God comes from a non-credible book. Creationism is not a science.

no i get happiness from nowing ill go to heaven and iwish every1 could and wanted 2 but as heaven being a childish thing that is very wrong there r tons of adults who think of heaven as the greatest thing ever and i truly believe it is + creationism is a science with my definition so take it as science or not idc

Can you not read, I used your definitions and showed how creationism does not apply to it. In a nutshell:

Science- State of knowledge

Knowledge- the fact or condition of knowing something with familiarity gained through experience or association

The idea of God is not gained through experience, it's only basis is the Bible which is not a credible book therefore creationism is not a science. It has no backings of fact, experimentation, or physical evidence.

Also adults can be childish. I become a legal adult this November, does that mean everything I believe goes from being childish to adult like? No. It is childish because it is childish to make a story up about what happens when someone to make yourself feel better about it rather than take a mature outlook on it and face it for what it really is.

...but the holy bible was inspired by god through the holy spirit who guided those men what to write. i mean, how were they to know all the way back then the earth was round?... the earth was thought to be flat untill a few hundred years ago.... open your eyes!

the greeks and romans knew the earth was round, it wasn't until the dark ages that that was lost. the time christianity originated was during the roman empire (obviously) so that isn't a valid arguement

ok it is ur choice 2 decide if its real but i believe it is real n ill go to heaven n u can say there is no heaven but wouldnt urather be safe than sorry

Sorry krustry, that's Pascal's wager...it doesn't work, there are many religions, thousands in fact, and yours could be just as wrong. And I think God would see right through me if I was just "pretending" to believe just to avoid hellfire.

+ creationism is a science with my definition so take it as science or not idc

If creationism is a science, then a big mac is a car...at least "with my definition so take it as a car or not idc"

Basically this all can be summed up as

"I am a scientist and have been studying life and the universe for 50 years and so far I am convinced that there is a creator because the universe is so complex and precise that I can't understand how it is possible for it to come to being "by mere chance""

It starts with an insignificant human not understanding the greatness of the universe thus he hides in his ancient literature because it does claim to have the answer he could not figure out on his own.

ya but there is proof that a big mac is not a car is there real proof that there is no God
Also im not just pretending n if ur just pretending then dont follow religion but about many other religions if im wronjg them im going to hell but if im right im goin to heaven so if i switch n im right then im goin to hell so i look at that i should pic one religion and i picked christianity but for the people who picked atheism they have no way of getting into heaven so i dont see why someone would pick atheism

^Learn to spell and coherently organize your thoughts.

Why would a person pick atheism? Because it is what evidence points towards right. The idea of a god is extremely unlikely, the don't feel like living a lie because they are scared about not going to heaven which not even all religions lead to, they don't like the idea that this life is all just a test for where the will be in the after life. Just to name a few.

Seriously, is that all what your life is about? Hoping that you will go to heaven? If so I find that pretty pathetic that you've let some BS story from a book scare you into living by their rules.

ya but there is proof that a big mac is not a car is there real proof that there is no God
Also im not just pretending n if ur just pretending then dont follow religion but about many other religions if im wronjg them im going to hell but if im right im goin to heaven so if i switch n im right then im goin to hell so i look at that i should pic one religion and i picked christianity but for the people who picked atheism they have no way of getting into heaven so i dont see why someone would pick atheism

There was not a single period in that whole post, Miss South Carolina.

You don't pick Atheism.

Atheism occurs when you are smart enough to realize that just because it's written in a book doesn't mean it's true.

It's not like you go over a list of things to choose from. You look at what a religion says and you realize man it's full of sh*t.

ahh, isn't that just what God wants guys? He doesn't care if we sincerely believe, or the fact that he could read our thoughts...he just wants us to claim Jesus as our savior even though we can't and refuse to believe it.

That's all he wants, that's why he made us, so we could believe in him with no evidence. Such a loving God!

Perhaps the reason why you "chose" Christianity, off a "list" it seems, of religions, was that it seems to require the least effort, and the best reward? Basically, you pray to "God", and you "accept Jesus into your life", and he "forgives you of all sin", and you suddenly are automatically transferred to "heaven" when you die. would you rather do this than pray many many times per day, make at least one MASSIVE journey to a temple to pray, and live under the constant avoiding the "gods" because they have no divine "will" for your life? as for what you put into your "religion", pray once and live. turn or burn. sounds great, eh? ok, (to a buddhist), join my party, or burn in hell forever because my loving God wants the best for you.


::::EDIT::::

(that came out a little bit bad, not what i wanted.)

i have to 2nd the statement about it being harder to believe in God every time razz posts.

+ a billion rep to you man, i have to spread it before giving it to you again, so i'll make sure to do so swiftly ;)

every post razz makes is very insightful, convincing..hell, convincing? ehem..true.