I don't know about everyone here but I worry constantly about what'll happen when I die. I know I'm only thirteen but I'm a pretty paranoid person. About six years back I believed everyone went to heaven after they die, four or more years ago, I thought that as long as you attended church you'd go to heaven. Recently my family has been in contact with certain prophets and they told me, to get to heaven you need to believe every single sentence in the bible and you can break the ten commandments but you have to repent whole heartedly.
What do you think?

I think i'd rather live my life without worrying about death which would cause me to waste my only life.
my 2 cents...

i honestly don't care what happens to me when i die.

as long as i'm living right now, its all good.

in the words of cake, sheep go to heaven goats go to hell.

Well, IF I believed in Heaven, I'd think as long as your goods outdid your bads, you'd go to heaven.

But I really feel for you. I almsot constatnly think about dying to, and it gives me panic attacks and scares the **** out of me. I've had this for about 2 years.

It has bothered me in the past, thinking that "once I'm dead, there's a chance that that's it--it's over." However, that is just because none of us can ever comprehend God's saving power. When I get these bad thoughts, I reaffirm my faith in the Lord who, through dying, conquered death for all of mankind.

I don't know about everyone here but I worry constantly about what'll happen when I die. I know I'm only thirteen but I'm a pretty paranoid person. About six years back I believed everyone went to heaven after they die, four or more years ago, I thought that as long as you attended church you'd go to heaven. Recently my family has been in contact with certain prophets and they told me, to get to heaven you need to believe every single sentence in the bible and you can break the ten commandments but you have to repent whole heartedly.
What do you think?

Those prophets were right. The Bible said that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. Other than through Jesus, you cannot come to the Father, who is in heaven. And as far as the attending church thing, notice that the Bible says that many on judgement day shall say "Have we not (insert things done in the name of Jesus) in your name!" I'm not Baptist, nor do I agree with everything they teach, but I think that this message by Paul Washer hits it rather well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuabITeO4l8

life is like a party.

you get in underage without the security noticing, you have fun and eventually you will get kicked out.

metaphorically speaking the party is life the security is death and you are you.

you get into the party (life) and you have fun, you dont keep looking over your shoulder at the security because then you wont have time to have fun, but no matter what, you will eventually get kicked out (die)

get in , get down , get kicked.

When you're alive, you're alive. Everybody seems to accept this but no one can accept the fact that everything living must die. Nothing is stagnant and nothing is eternal, entropy always wins.
When you die blood stops flowing to your brain and you it shuts down and starts to decompose. You stop retaining information you stop thinking and you stop existing. It's at this point in the conversation where people start to disagree.

Why? Becouse they don't want it to happen to them.

Please read these and answer them truthfully. Don't just skim over.

What was it like before your brain developed? Before you were born? If you can tell me that you can answer my next question. *hint* It's the same answer.

What's it like after your brain stops recieving blood and ceases to work?

What is it like to be dead?

yeah its true that people dont want to believe that happens to them when they die

i think theres no point in thinking about death. which is not the same as not thinking about the future. you can live life and have loads of fun but sometimes you also need to focus on whats good for you so your future is fun to and you're not all messed up in some years. but yeah just live without thinking of what comes after. when it comes it will come and thats it.

the security guard thing was a pretty good metaphore

EDIT: oops i didnt realize this was the christian section. bear in mind i'm an athiest so i dont believe in heaven.

Jump off the nearest building if you wanna know so bad.

really, i dont care what happens, because i cant comprehend it. i meen an eternity in heaven or hell, or limbo? its incomprehendible. like everything nowadays is electronic, and if theres a bad channel on tv, you can just turn it off...therers nothing bigger than the supposed God, so you cant "turn it off". forever. its too confusing for me

i worry like now and then but after i think about it i decide that i just want to live for the moment

really, i dont care what happens, because i cant comprehend it. i meen an eternity in heaven or hell, or limbo? its incomprehendible. like everything nowadays is electronic, and if theres a bad channel on tv, you can just turn it off...therers nothing bigger than the supposed God, so you cant "turn it off". forever. its too confusing for me

Now there's another thought I've had about the after life.

I've heard people talk about heaven being a place paved with gold and the streets lined with food, and everybody connected with God. A world of no pain for eternity.

Now, eternity is a really long time. That in itself is the understatement of the Century.

Eternity is lnoger than100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 0,000,000,000,000,000,000 Billion years. In fact, considering that this eternity is forever this lenght of time is barely a scratch on the surface.

Are you concious and capable of thought in Heaven?
Are you able to comprehend the Billions of years that go by in the universe?
Do the few milenia that Humans have left on the Earth even register in your mind?
Do you have a mind?

I stress one point. An eternity is longer than the Rolling stones have been on tour.
It's older than God.
It's older than every single Friends re-run.
It's older than that slowly rotting plate of Spaghetti bol in the back of the fridge.
Is it longer than Tommy Lee's ****? I don't know. But it's a hell of a long time.

Just think about it.

i try not to worry.

To be honest, heaven, hell and limbo, all sound bad. So there's no winning really is there? I'd probably rather just not exist then spend forever with the worst god ever. Satan sounds pretty cool, I'l probably just argue with him about, if he hates god so much, then why does he punish people who are bad, and then I'd call him a hippocrit.

Dying is awesome. You know what? Suicide tym 4 meh!

Say, thse slppeing pilzlz r ikcikng ni...

Drink deep for tomorrow you die! Only one life do you have to live. Don't take a chance on something like eternity. It isn't worth it.... I agree with izzy.

Intresting tidbit, the concept of eternity as it is in the christian doctrine did not have its roots in judaism, but rather greek philosophy.

I get what ya mean. I too for like a month or so have been worrying about what happens in the afterlife or what happens when I'm dead. But then I learned to just live for the moment and you'll simply find out what happens when you die.

When you die, your brain shuts off... when you die your not able to think (DUH) it could God has freed you of the earthly torment and given you peace..... that is what I think heaven is :)

Jump off the nearest building if you wanna know so bad.



ROFL +Rep

Do dogs have an afterlife?
Do cats have an afterlife?
Do mice have an afterlife?
Do snakes have an afterlife?
Do lizards have an afterlife?
Do apes have an afterlife?

Then what makes you think that humans have an afterlife?



Live your life to it's fullest, have fun, get chicks, whatever, just make the best of it, and when it's over.. It's over.
Your body will essentially turn into plant food.

Do dogs have an afterlife?
Do cats have an afterlife?
Do mice have an afterlife?
Do snakes have an afterlife?
Do lizards have an afterlife?
Do apes have an afterlife?

Then what makes you think that humans have an afterlife?



Live your life to it's fullest, have fun, get chicks, whatever, just make the best of it, and when it's over.. It's over.
Your body will essentially turn into plant food.
Since you're all about evidence, please give me evidence that none of those creatures have an afterlife.

Oh what's that, you can't? Thought so. You know I like you Berishman, but I'm getting really sick of you acting like you know everything.

I get what ya mean. I too for like a month or so have been worrying about what happens in the afterlife or what happens when I'm dead. But then I learned to just live for the moment and you'll simply find out what happens when you die.

you will definitely find out what happens. its a sure thing. the only thing about just worrying about it later is once it is later you cant change things.
so..

/snip
What do you think?


90%( or more even) of people go to Heaven. When you die you go to a place called Purgatory. It cleanses you of all your sins. And then you may enter Heaven sin free. The better the life you live, the faster you get into Heaven. Its like a line at an amusement park. If you live a pretty good life, you can skip allot of people who lived worse lifes.( Like murders and such.)

I worry about death a few times. I hate it because when you start to worry it starts to sink in that you can do nothing about it, you gonna die and it scares the **** out of me, But think about it how do people know what death is.the only people who know what death is, is the people who have died, and they aint gonna come back and tell us am they, for all we know when you die you go into a world wear building are made out of jelly and the whole worlds a skatepark, and the sky green and the sea pink, Basically NO ONE KNOWS WHAT DEATH IS.! im still scared tho :icon_frow

you will definitely find out what happens. its a sure thing. the only thing about just worrying about it later is once it is later you cant change things.
so..

If there is no afterlife and death is just the shutting down of the brain, then you have no way to realize that there is no afterlife, so really you won't know what happens, because you will not be able to know anything.

Do dogs have an afterlife?
Do cats have an afterlife?
Do mice have an afterlife?
Do snakes have an afterlife?
Do lizards have an afterlife?
Do apes have an afterlife?

Then what makes you think that humans have an afterlife?


Humans have souls. Animals don't. God made us in his likeness. He did not make animals in his likenees. We have the breath of life. Animals don't.

man dont worry about all that little picky stuff,
you dont have to believe EVERY SINGLE sentence, but as a whole you have to believe in jesus, and accept him into your heart as your savior.

you dont believe = youre effed. youre effed. sexual favors for satan for you.
you believe = eternal life in heaven with god

simple.

Maybe you just come back as somebody else.........

live your life or kill yourself.

theres nothing else you can do, but eventually you will find out.
Merging doublepost
Humans have souls. Animals don't. God made us in his likeness. He did not make animals in his likenees. We have the breath of life. Animals don't.

what makes you think animals don't have souls? technically, humans are nothing but animls, just the worst kind of them.

and if what you say is true, maybe souls are a bad thing. have you ever seen whales start a war? or a cat robbing another? or a tiger polluting the air?

or any animal start a religion?

Humans have souls. Animals don't. God made us in his likeness. He did not make animals in his likenees. We have the breath of life. Animals don't.
Have any proof that only Humans have souls and animals don't?

Since you're all about evidence, please give me evidence that none of those creatures have an afterlife.

Oh what's that, you can't? Thought so. You know I like you Berishman, but I'm getting really sick of you acting like you know everything.

I lyke j00 too shorty'_kid!

BUT

That post was simply to make a point.

Just as there is no evidence that animals have any kind of afterlife, there is no proof that humans have any sort of afterlife.

All of these cases of people "seeing jesus" and coming back from the dead, I believe can be explained quite simply with three letters: DMT (dimethyltryptamine), a natural hallucinogen found in the brain that is released after death.

Just a hypothesis, nothing more.

I'm just tired of people thinking they are so much more valuable than the rest of the animals on this planet.

^There is proof that humans have an afterlife. (I don't mean heaven and all that jazz). Its just hard to find what "proof" is actually real, or a hoax. The only people you can really trust are the ones that go in trying to DISprove the haunting, like the guys on Ghost Hunters. They've caught a video of a lamp moving by itself and dismissed it, and they caught an apparition on film and dismissed that too. (It was transparent, btw), so when they say something is there, it is. haha.

^Sorry dude, I really just don't buy into that stuff.
Even if there are high amounts of electromagnetic energy in any given place, that doesn't mean that it is a person. You (not you specifically, ;)) can draw all of these conclusions like, OHH that lamp moved by itself, and there was a lady that died here 30 years ago.. must be her.

There is always a second, more logical explanation to everything.

Humans have souls. Animals don't. God made us in his likeness. He did not make animals in his likenees. We have the breath of life. Animals don't.


Well **** heaven then, cause if I don't see ol' Sparkey, or Lassie up there, I'm gonna flip ****...

I believe in an after life, but I don't believe in heaven or hell. Like why would a "god" create us, just to judge us and put us in a good place or a bad. What is he gaining? I really find it hard to believe.

Probably cause he's all alone, and I mean what the f*ck else are you gonna do the rest of eternity?...



















....lol, honestly don't know, and I agree with you.

spending forever in heaven.... sounds a bit lengthy. No matter how good it is spending forever there would just be depressing.

So what is the afterlife? Is it really what we think it is, just another place? or is it something a LOT different.

90%( or more even) of people go to Heaven. When you die you go to a place called Purgatory. It cleanses you of all your sins. And then you may enter Heaven sin free. The better the life you live, the faster you get into Heaven. Its like a line at an amusement park. If you live a pretty good life, you can skip allot of people who lived worse lifes.( Like murders and such.)

Matthew 7:13.
http://media.salemwebnetwork.com/biblestudytools/skin/CCOM/Icon_CrossRef_wht_bg.gif "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14.But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."
Merging doublepost
If there is no afterlife and death is just the shutting down of the brain, then you have no way to realize that there is no afterlife, so really you won't know what happens, because you will not be able to know anything.

I don't think we are here simply to die.
Merging doublepost
I believe in an after life, but I don't believe in heaven or hell. Like why would a "god" create us, just to judge us and put us in a good place or a bad. What is he gaining? I really find it hard to believe.

God made us so we could glorify Him and have fellowship with Him. He made Adam and Eve and put them in the garden, and then He walked in fellowship with them. He gave them the greatest thing they could have, His love and presence. After they sinned, God said, "Adam, where are you?" God sought Adam. God said to Moses while Israel was in the wilderness, "And let them construct a sanctuary for Me, that I may dwell among them." In the New Testament it says,"And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us...God seeks our presence. He wants to have fellowship with us. He made us to give us His love and enjoy His presence. But, man sinned and separated Himself from God. That is why Christ died for sins, that our fellowship with God would be restored.

God made us so we could glorify Him and have fellowship with Him.

Isn't that a bit selfish of him? Is that a good reason to create us? That doesn't seem like a good enough reason.

if you want to waste your life worrying about when you're going to die, be my guest. all i'm saying is that i want to get everything i can possibly do done before the day i die.

which could even be tomorrow, but so be it.

don't worry about a thing.

I don't think we are here simply to die.


Neither do I. I am just saying that if there is no afterlife, then no one will ever know.

^Sorry dude, I really just don't buy into that stuff.
Even if there are high amounts of electromagnetic energy in any given place, that doesn't mean that it is a person. You (not you specifically, ;)) can draw all of these conclusions like, OHH that lamp moved by itself, and there was a lady that died here 30 years ago.. must be her.

There is always a second, more logical explanation to everything.
They don't use EMF's as "Proof". They even say it's just a theory that if there is a high unexplainable Electromagnetic Field, that there might be a spirit present.

And I'm sorry, but there is not a second, more logical explination to me watching my cabinet door open by itself, then a container from the back fly out. Or me getting poked in the shoulder when i was looking in a mirror in the bathroom. Or me seeing a black silhouette of a human standing in between two lit rooms, and then it slide off to the left and dissapear. I'm all for finding explinations for things, I don't label something as possibly paranormal unless I cannot come to any sort of conclusion to what it possibly could've been.

And hauntings don't always occur where somebody died, if it was a place that the person was attatched to somehow, they might go back to it.

Purgatory sounds great. It's not biblical at all though, sadly.

I think of Jesus' death, and when he rose again. Signifying that the spirit lives on (with your personality.. so we all best start getting ours in line with Christ's eh? =P)

I think of the creation of the world. I think of the paranormal things I've seen. I know there is more then what meets the eye. I've experienced many miracles that God has done with me, internally, as he does with anyone who will follow him. It is the transformation of the mind. Such things are not placebo effect. Bust this all together, with prayers being answered, I am 100% sure there's a God, Jesus is true, the Bible is true....

I do not fear death. This gives me peace. I do not feel the need to be 'loved' by others, or catch their approval. This gives me peace. God provides everything for his children. It's great.

What I think happens when we die is we basically go into a sleep mode, so when we die, immediately (it would seem, to us. But it could be many years.) we will be in a different place, before God, Alone, possibly butt naked, to be accountable for how we lived our lives.

You are worrying about not going to heaven? I don't believe in heaven. I have a couple theories about what happens after you die. A. I think you just go into a dream like state after you die or B. you repeat your life all over again. Those are my theories.

Isn't that a bit selfish of him? Is that a good reason to create us? That doesn't seem like a good enough reason.

Many different answers have been offered to this question and I think that the real answer is a composite of biblical themes revolving around love, sacrifice, and fellowship. Certainly, God is self-sufficient so there is no lack in Him, no void that must be filled. In 1 john 4:8 it says that God is love. In john 3:16 it says that "God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son..." We can see that the nature of love is to give. Furthermore, in John 13:15 Jesus said, "No greater love has anyone than that he lay his life down for a friend." In addition, 1 cor 1-9 states that we are called into fellowship with the Son of God, Jesus Christ.

Quite simply, it seems that God desired to create us in order that He might be able to simply love us. I think this is evidence in the way creation was begun. God walked with Adam and Eve in the Garden. We see that after their sin, it was the Lord who came looking for them. They are the ones who hid themselves. God sought them out. He desired to be with them and love them. Therefore, He set up the sacrificial system by covering Adam and Eve with animal skins. Of course, this was a representation of the sacrifice of Christ to come by while Christians are covered and redeemed. God's desire to fellowship and love us is not a weakness in Him, but a manifestation of His character of love.
Love does not focus on itself, but on others. God merely created the universe as a natural manifestation of His love and populated it with us for whom He could express the greatest act of love, which is self-sacrifice, and with whom He could give the greatest thing in the universe: fellowship with Him. In this, He is glorified.
If God had never created us, it would not lessen Him at all. He didn't need to create us due to any lack in Him. Rather, He merely desires to love us and fellowship with us.
Merging doublepost
You are worrying about not going to heaven? I don't believe in heaven. I have a couple theories about what happens after you die. A. I think you just go into a dream like state after you die or B. you repeat your life all over again. Those are my theories.

I don't know...Reincarnation works with karma, the idea that your past lives "goodness" or "badness" affects the quality and position of your next incarnation. The purpose of reincarnation is to help you develop perfect karma by which you might then achieve a union with the divine consciousness after you have learned whatever it is you are supposed to learn. The problem is that each person had a first incarnation. That means that each person then had perfect Karma since he had no previous life and had done nothing wrong. Therefore, if he had perfect Karma and didn't learn or do what he was supposed to in his first life, then what makes him think that after hundreds of incarnations with accumulated bad karma that he will be able to achieve the perfect state of union with the divine consciousness that reincarnation moves him toward? It doesn't make any sense.

this is what confession at church is for, and extreme unction
E U is when your dying, so you or someone would call a priest for you, they come in, and you confess all your sins that you can remember to them, mainly mortal sins (it is a good idea to confess your venial sins, but it isnt required)
you say the act of contrition after this, and the priest gives you penance to do (eg say a certain amount of certain prayers)
after this you will go to heaven for sure (unless you sin right after, then you need to confess more)

I don't know...Reincarnation works with karma, the idea that your past lives "goodness" or "badness" affects the quality and position of your next incarnation. The purpose of reincarnation is to help you develop perfect karma by which you might then achieve a union with the divine consciousness after you have learned whatever it is you are supposed to learn. The problem is that each person had a first incarnation. That means that each person then had perfect Karma since he had no previous life and had done nothing wrong. Therefore, if he had perfect Karma and didn't learn or do what he was supposed to in his first life, then what makes him think that after hundreds of incarnations with accumulated bad karma that he will be able to achieve the perfect state of union with the divine consciousness that reincarnation moves him toward? It doesn't make any sense.

It seems to me that you just disproved karma...nice.

And I belive what a casual Christian would belive. If you share a loving relationship with God, you go to Heven. If you have sin in your life, you enter Hell.

But before God's seccond comming, I belive you are "spiritually uncontious".

The Bible even teaches what people call 'karma'. You reap what you sow.

TheWHOamnizer, you are taking karma and applying it to a western concept of time. You see in most eastern religions, time is cyclical, so no one nessecarily had to have a first inccarnation.
Western concept of time = linear
Eastern concept of time = cyclical
karma works cyclically.
Tyler Self, Karma is way more complicated than "you reap what you sow." It's not what is represented on "My name is earl" even though i like that show =)

They don't use EMF's as "Proof". They even say it's just a theory that if there is a high unexplainable Electromagnetic Field, that there might be a spirit present.

And I'm sorry, but there is not a second, more logical explination to me watching my cabinet door open by itself, then a container from the back fly out. Or me getting poked in the shoulder when i was looking in a mirror in the bathroom. Or me seeing a black silhouette of a human standing in between two lit rooms, and then it slide off to the left and dissapear. I'm all for finding explinations for things, I don't label something as possibly paranormal unless I cannot come to any sort of conclusion to what it possibly could've been.

And hauntings don't always occur where somebody died, if it was a place that the person was attatched to somehow, they might go back to it.

Heres a second explanation:
The way the brain compiles memories, and they are distorted over time, even without you intending to distort them, when thinking back, you may change many, many, many details of the incident - without intending to.

The cabinet could have easily been a draft. The can is probably nothing more than what I just said above, the way your brain compiles, and then brings back, memories. Did this can fall, or hover in one spot? Explain this in as much detail as you possibly can.

Getting poked in the shoulder? Not sure what that was, sounds like it could have been a sudden muscle contraction or something of the sort.

The black silhouette is easy to explain: Have you ever seen this illusion?
http://www.guy-sports.com/humor/halloween/ghost_optical_illusion.htm

It all has to do with the way the brain makes sense of the information your eyes relay to it. Your eyes send the reality; the hollow back side is visible, but the way the brain makes 'sense' of information distorts the reality.
Much like what you likely saw between these two lit rooms, Your brain attempted to make sense of the stimuli, and created a human silhouette to explain what it was seeing, but of course, after a moment, your brain realized what it was actually seeing, and the proper image flipped into place.

God made us so we could glorify Him and have fellowship with Him. He made Adam and Eve and put them in the garden, and then He walked in fellowship with them. He gave them the greatest thing they could have, His love and presence. After they sinned, God said, "Adam, where are you?" God sought Adam. God said to Moses while Israel was in the wilderness, "And let them construct a sanctuary for Me, that I may dwell among them." In the New Testament it says,"And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us...God seeks our presence. He wants to have fellowship with us. He made us to give us His love and enjoy His presence. But, man sinned and separated Himself from God. That is why Christ died for sins, that our fellowship with God would be restored.'


Ok this is what I find bullsh*t, 2 f*cking people screw it up, ok cool, they sin, but why the hell do we have to all pay for it, but sucking god's D*ck every moment, and worshipping him all the time, following dumb rules that make no sense, and most likely weren't even written by some god....


Eve screws it up, and WE all have to pay for it, and yet you say Jesus died for our sin, oh well cut the crap, look at any "faithful christian", they have to do so much crap so they don't sin, and in the end go to Heaven..

...well ALL OF IT SOUNDS LIKE A HUGE LOAD OF DOGCRAP....



Trust me. Look now we look back at Egyptians and laugh that they whorshipped a cat. Yet now we give money to a church to "help it", even though wealth is a sin, and greed is a deadly sin. Believe this, future generations will look back at the christians and laugh about the religion, and jesus, we will be the future's "egyptians".....but by then a new religion will have sprung, who knows maybe scientology will be full bound.

All I know is that religion is just an installment of fear, put on people, so that we work towards a goal, that the church and its leaders want.


You wanna know the biggest hypocrite in the world? The pope, all his believers and all christians in general.

A completley closed cabinet flying open VERY quickly from a draft with no fans on and all the windows closed, that I couldn't feel when I was in the same room? Hmm, that's logical alright.

The container didn't fall out. It FLEW out. Like, the thing hit the wall on the other side of the room.

And about the poked in the shoulder thing, it actually made me move forward a little. It was as if someone actually poked/pushed me.

And I know about how the brain distorts memories. My sister saw it too because she was in the other room, she remembers exactly what I remember.

TheWHOamnizer, you are taking karma and applying it to a western concept of time. You see in most eastern religions, time is cyclical, so no one nessecarily had to have a first inccarnation.
Western concept of time = linear
Eastern concept of time = cyclical
karma works cyclically.
Tyler Self, Karma is way more complicated than "you reap what you sow." It's not what is represented on "My name is earl" even though i like that show =)

Meaning they think they have always been here then? Either way there had to be a first incarnation.
Merging doublepost
'


Ok this is what I find bullsh*t, 2 f*cking people screw it up, ok cool, they sin, but why the hell do we have to all pay for it, but sucking god's D*ck every moment, and worshipping him all the time, following dumb rules that make no sense, and most likely weren't even written by some god....


Eve screws it up, and WE all have to pay for it, and yet you say Jesus died for our sin, oh well cut the crap, look at any "faithful christian", they have to do so much crap so they don't sin, and in the end go to Heaven..

...well ALL OF IT SOUNDS LIKE A HUGE LOAD OF DOGCRAP....



Trust me. Look now we look back at Egyptians and laugh that they whorshipped a cat. Yet now we give money to a church to "help it", even though wealth is a sin, and greed is a deadly sin. Believe this, future generations will look back at the christians and laugh about the religion, and jesus, we will be the future's "egyptians".....but by then a new religion will have sprung, who knows maybe scientology will be full bound.

All I know is that religion is just an installment of fear, put on people, so that we work towards a goal, that the church and its leaders want.


You wanna know the biggest hypocrite in the world? The pope, all his believers and all christians in general.

Are we punished for Adam’s sin? Will God hold us accountable for what Adam did in the Garden of Eden? It doesn’t make sense that we should be punished for something we didn’t do. After all, we weren’t there in the Garden. We didn’t do anything. So, are we punished for Adam’s sin?
The answer is yes and no. On one hand, we suffer the consequences of Adam's disobedience and have inherited a sinful nature from him, (Romans 5:12-23). The Bible states that ". . . through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned," Adam sinned. We didn’t. He was in the Garden of Eden. We were not. When we face God on the day of judgment, the Lord won’t say to us, "Adam sinned, so you are going to pay for it." We are responsible for our own sins, not the sins of others.
On the other hand, we are affected by Adam’s sin. This is how. Before the fall, Adam was sinless, perfect, and good Genesis 1:31. He had a ‘good’ nature. But, after the fall, he became a sinner. His nature was changed from ‘good’ to ‘bad.’ Since we are his children, we inherit his sinful nature (Romans 5:12). In this sense, we suffer for what Adam did; that is, he caused his descendants to have sinful natures and all of us suffer because of it. This is called original sin. It means that we have inherited a sinful nature and that all of what we are as individuals (mind, body, soul, spirit, emotions, and thought) is touched by sin. But this does not mean that we are as sinful as we can be. After all, God has written His Law on our hearts (Romans 1:19, 2:15)

I'm not sure i know what you mean by,`"they have to do so much crap so they don't sin." Every person has sin in their life..Christians don't just accept Jesus as savior and then spin around in circles with capes on to avoid sin...you sin still. But you try not to. If you become a Christian simply to goto heaven you've missed the point. You become a Christian because you believe Jesus was the Son of God and that he died for you and rose again. I agree with you on one part though. There are a lot of hypocrites. It annoys me quite a bit to see people who claim to be christians not living right. I hate it. Knowing and having a relationship with God is nothing like fear. It's the best thing that you could ever expierence on this earth. Your not called to follow men, but God. Your not forced to go and do what your church wants at all. You do the will of the Father.

Meaning they think they have always been here then? Either way there had to be a first incarnation.


Why does there have to be a first? Show me the beginning of a circle. You need to get out of the mind set that time is linear before considering and discussing karma.

Meaning they think they have always been here then? Either way there had to be a first incarnation.
Merging doublepost


Are we punished for Adam’s sin? Will God hold us accountable for what Adam did in the Garden of Eden? It doesn’t make sense that we should be punished for something we didn’t do. After all, we weren’t there in the Garden. We didn’t do anything. So, are we punished for Adam’s sin?
The answer is yes and no. On one hand, we suffer the consequences of Adam's disobedience and have inherited a sinful nature from him, (Romans 5:12-23). The Bible states that ". . . through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned," Adam sinned. We didn’t. He was in the Garden of Eden. We were not. When we face God on the day of judgment, the Lord won’t say to us, "Adam sinned, so you are going to pay for it." We are responsible for our own sins, not the sins of others.
On the other hand, we are affected by Adam’s sin. This is how. Before the fall, Adam was sinless, perfect, and good Genesis 1:31. He had a ‘good’ nature. But, after the fall, he became a sinner. His nature was changed from ‘good’ to ‘bad.’ Since we are his children, we inherit his sinful nature (Romans 5:12). In this sense, we suffer for what Adam did; that is, he caused his descendants to have sinful natures and all of us suffer because of it. This is called original sin. It means that we have inherited a sinful nature and that all of what we are as individuals (mind, body, soul, spirit, emotions, and thought) is touched by sin. But this does not mean that we are as sinful as we can be. After all, God has written His Law on our hearts (Romans 1:19, 2:15)

I'm not sure i know what you mean by,`"they have to do so much crap so they don't sin." Every person has sin in their life..Christians don't just accept Jesus as savior and then spin around in circles with capes on to avoid sin...you sin still. But you try not to. If you become a Christian simply to goto heaven you've missed the point. You become a Christian because you believe Jesus was the Son of God and that he died for you and rose again. I agree with you on one part though. There are a lot of hypocrites. It annoys me quite a bit to see people who claim to be christians not living right. I hate it. Knowing and having a relationship with God is nothing like fear. It's the best thing that you could ever expierence on this earth. Your not called to follow men, but God. Your not forced to go and do what your church wants at all. You do the will of the Father.

No thats the thing, religion is a cultist form, I mean they do so much crap, such as confess, go to church, pay money to the church, and revolve your life around this book that is supposed to tell you how to do right....well what the hell happened to just common sense and morals, we all can already decide what is good, but the bible puts it to the extreme.


Oh and I'm not a christian at all, so I'm not a hypocrite, and trust me following a fake book, is not the greatest experience....knowing and living a free, independent life, and still choosing a moral path, is far greater, you are not guided by books, but rather it shows, in the end at least, you did it on your own......I have much more respect for moral-abiding, great people who DON'T follow a religion, as it shows they don't need a handbook on how to live life.

The container didn't fall out. It FLEW out. Like, the thing hit the wall on the other side of the room.

And about the poked in the shoulder thing, it actually made me move forward a little. It was as if someone actually poked/pushed me.

Either you're exaggerating things.. Or you're trippin'.
rofl

Either you're exaggerating things.. Or you're trippin'.
rofl


Wellllll we all know who smokes in this forum now....:tongue::icon_peac

Either you're exaggerating things.. Or you're trippin'.
rofl
I'm not exaggerating anything. You think that I want a ghost in my house or something? Hell no. Everything that happens in my house I try to dismiss unless it's truly unexplainable. Like me hearing a woman's voice no more than a foot from my ear when I'm home alone. (My mom has heard the voice too.)

My sister's boyfriend's house has some weird activity going on in it too. Last night he sent a video to my sister that he took with his cellphone of a cup on his desk sliding by itself, it's pretty cool. I'll try and get one of them to put it on youtube or something. The video kidn of sucks because he was sitting at the desk when he took it, so you can barely see what's around it. But stuff like that happens a lot in his house, he'll probably get a better vid soon.

So conveniently, I, someone who doesn't believe in ANYTHING supernatural, doesn't live in a haunted house?

rofl.

^I see what you're trying to imply. But many people who DO beleive in the paranormal don't live in haunted houses. Some of my friends that are beleivers haven't even had anything happen to them before. And many people who live in haunted houses were exactly like you until they moved into that house.

Many people go an entire lifetime without experiencing any paranormal activity. Some people have quite a few things happen to them, like me.



I really hate the term haunted, it makes people think of like, hollywood. haha.

No thats the thing, religion is a cultist form, I mean they do so much crap, such as confess, go to church, pay money to the church, and revolve your life around this book that is supposed to tell you how to do right....well what the hell happened to just common sense and morals, we all can already decide what is good, but the bible puts it to the extreme.


Oh and I'm not a christian at all, so I'm not a hypocrite, and trust me following a fake book, is not the greatest experience....knowing and living a free, independent life, and still choosing a moral path, is far greater, you are not guided by books, but rather it shows, in the end at least, you did it on your own......I have much more respect for moral-abiding, great people who DON'T follow a religion, as it shows they don't need a handbook on how to live life.

None of those things stop you from sinning. If you believe in God you of course will follow His word, fellowship with other of the same belief, and support what you believe in. Most people can decide what is good..mass murders,rapists etc..they do not obviously agree with normal people on what is good and bad. If there is no line to cross then there is no line at all. The fact that everyone thinks things like, hey this isnt fair, or thats not right. How do you gauge between right and wrong? whats wrong to you could be right to someone else; such as abortion. Consciousness is either inexplicable illusion, or else revelation.

^I see what you're trying to imply. But many people who DO beleive in the paranormal don't live in haunted houses. Some of my friends that are beleivers haven't even had anything happen to them before. And many people who live in haunted houses were exactly like you until they moved into that house.

Many people go an entire lifetime without experiencing any paranormal activity. Some people have quite a few things happen to them, like me.



I really hate the term haunted, it makes people think of like, hollywood. haha.Haha I love how we're kind of like, having our own little conversation inside of this thread about religion.
lol

Yeah dude, but I mean, until someone can show me any type of evidence that anything supernatural exists, I'm a nonbeliever.

So conveniently, I, someone who doesn't believe in ANYTHING supernatural, doesn't live in a haunted house?

rofl.


Ghosts are 100% real dude.

I got one story from a long ass time ago. The summer after 7th grade, me and my parents went on a road trip through the midwest. We went through Yellowstone and this one national park outside of Denver, Colorado called Estes National Park. It was maybe 9pm in the national park, so we decided to get a hotel room. In the hotel we stayed at, we heard something that sounded like something falling onto the floor in our closet when we were trying to sleep. I was to sleepy so I didn't feel like seeing what it was. The next day when we woke up, we saw that my mom's suit cases fell off of the shelf in our closet and was opened. We didn't care much about it, but last summer (the sumemer after 8th grade) we saw that place on Ghost Hunters.

Ghosts are 100% real dude.
Prove it.

It's sounding to me like the same sort of blind faith style "I can't explain this, let's use a supernatural being to make sense of it all" sort of logic that Christians use to justify their belief in God..

"zomg, my mom's cancer went away, it must have been God!"
but of course, with you guys it would be:
"zomg, my mom's cancer went away, guess that big bad ghost finally left!"
rofl



So your mom's suitcases became unbalanced and fell to the ground, and the shock opened them, too obvious?

Prove it.

It's sounding to me like the same sort of blind faith style "I can't explain this, let's use a supernatural being to make sense of it all" sort of logic that Christians use to justify their belief in God..

"zomg, my mom's cancer went away, it must have been God!"
but of course, with you guys it would be:
"zomg, my mom's cancer went away, guess that big bad ghost finally left!"
rofl



So your mom's suitcases became unbalanced and fell to the ground, and the shock opened them, too obvious?

How can the shock completely unzip it?

How can the shock completely unzip it?

Did you see her zip it up before she put it in the closet?

and if you say 'yes', then you're just a classic example of how the brain recalls, and alters, old memories, if the memory wasn't altered you probably wouldn't remember such a small detail as your mom zipping a suitcase up. Think about it.

Did you see her zip it up before she put it in the closet?

and if you say 'yes', then you're just a classic example of how the brain recalls, and alters, old memories, if the memory wasn't altered you probably wouldn't remember such a small detail as your mom zipping a suitcase up. Think about it.

No, but the next day she said she had it zipped up before she put it in the clostet. She has allstimers or whatever it is called though, so idk.
Merging doublepost
Any, shorty's_kid has a **** load of experiences. What do you think all the things he has seen was then? The wind?

No, but the next day she said she had it zipped up before she put it in the clostet. She has allstimers or whatever it is called though, so idk.
Merging doublepost
Any, shorty's_kid has a **** load of experiences. What do you think all the things he has seen was then? The wind?

Unexplainable without more information.
Only he could look back and determine what it REALLY was that caused these apparent phenomenons. I wouldn't have enough information.

But in science, if you can't explain something, you never just blame it on the supernatural, you just set it aside and wait until you have more evidence, or a better understanding of what it might have been that confused your senses.

It isn't natural for something to fly our of a cabinet and hit a wall on the other side of them room. The only thing that could cause this is the supernatural.

It isn't natural for something to fly our of a cabinet and hit a wall on the other side of them room. The only thing that could cause this is the supernatural.

That's what I'm saying. Science has NEVER even SUGGESTED that anything supernatural exists. If something flies out of your cabinet and hits a wall on the other side of the room, (well, to me it sounds like it never happened, or was some kind of drug trip...Trevorrr??? :p) but seriously though, I'm highly doubting that the can ACTUALLY flew out of the cabinet, and crashed into a wall on the other side of the room.


Some questions for Shortys_kid, if he feels like answering:
How long ago was this?
How old were you?
Who else saw this?
How old were they?
Did you see this occur dead on, or out of the corner of your eye?
You do realize that that defies the laws of physics right?
Even a supernatural being would not be able to defy the laws of physics, right?
Was the room well lit?
Did the can seem to 'hover' at all?
What was in this can?
Was it metal, plastic.. etc?
Do you have crawlspaces in your house?
Is there a sort of 'second ceiling' in your house? like, if you were to look under the ceiling that is visible in the room where this occurred, is there another ceiling just above that one?
Is this cupboard connected to any other cupboards, or is it isolated?
Was it a windy day? (This, and a few other questions, are invalid if it happened too long ago to produce an accurate memory)
What time of year was this?
Was there anyone else in the house?
And if so, were they opening or closing any other doors in the house?

Berishman, I've told you before, watch Ghost Hunters. They go in trying to disprove hauntings, and most of the time if they catch something, they go back and try to recreate it.

I'll answer the questions for that particular event. Things have happened to me my whole life though, I've heard the womans voice twice this summer alone. In the past two years, I've also had strings on my guitar go off by themselves, i've heard breathing right behind me, My chandeleir (20 pounds, mind you) in the dining room started swinging by itself (not a slight swing either, It was quite violent/high)

Some questions for Shortys_kid, if he feels like answering:
How long ago was this? 1999 or 2000?
How old were you? 7 or 8.
Who else saw this? My Sister. My mom saw the gigantic mess of brown sugar everywhere on the other side of the room though when she got home, hahaha.
How old were they? 10.
Did you see this occur dead on, or out of the corner of your eye? Dead on.
You do realize that that defies the laws of physics right? It doesn't if somebody threw it.
Even a supernatural being would not be able to defy the laws of physics, right? There's no laws being defied.
Was the room well lit? Yes.
Did the can seem to 'hover' at all? No, it came straight out.
What was in this can? It was a tupaware container actually. And it had brown sugar.
Was it metal, plastic.. etc? Plastic.
Do you have crawlspaces in your house? I live in a trailer.
Is there a sort of 'second ceiling' in your house? like, if you were to look under the ceiling that is visible in the room where this occurred, is there another ceiling just above that one? Trailer?
Is this cupboard connected to any other cupboards, or is it isolated? connected.
Was it a windy day? (This, and a few other questions, are invalid if it happened too long ago to produce an accurate memory) I don't remember. but it was winter, so I guaruntee you no windows were open.
What time of year was this? Winter.
Was there anyone else in the house? Sister.
And if so, were they opening or closing any other doors in the house? Nope. My sister was in the living room, which is connected to the kitchen. There aren't many doors in my house, it's a pretty open floorplan. I'll do a video walkthrough of that section of the house if you want me too.

Oh, and even if we gave you real evidence, you'd say it's just a hoax anyway, and you know it. haha. But here's a video of some stuff they've found on ghost hunters. Alot I don't think much of, but some is pretty cool. Just skip to 1:00, that's when cool stuff starts, haha. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gjtvx2UfIc

Youtube quality ruins a few of those clips too.

Don't worry though, I completley understand why someone doesn't beleive in this stuff. I always think that i'm insane when I see/experience things like this. The thing about spirits is, we obviously can't study them. The only thing we can do is hopefully catch them on video, or audio.

Maybe you'll experience something one day.
Merging doublepost
Oh, I just realized that I said it hit the wall on the other side, it hit the base cabinet/counter on the other side. there's one big base cabinet/countertop that sticks out into the open, that's what it hit, not a wall.

I feel like an idiot now. haha.

Yeah, Ghost Hunters will make you a believer, Derrick.

None of those things stop you from sinning. If you believe in God you of course will follow His word, fellowship with other of the same belief, and support what you believe in. Most people can decide what is good..mass murders,rapists etc..they do not obviously agree with normal people on what is good and bad. If there is no line to cross then there is no line at all. The fact that everyone thinks things like, hey this isnt fair, or thats not right. How do you gauge between right and wrong? whats wrong to you could be right to someone else; such as abortion. Consciousness is either inexplicable illusion, or else revelation.

Exactly my point, you do all this, basically for no point, when you could easily just decide what is morally a sin or not....

And btw, abortion is a completely fine thing to do.If it's early, the child has never actually existed, and in most cases, if you're thinking about an abortion you are a usually a young pregnant teen, and well a child only brings more problems, and ruins that persons life for a long time to come, as they will simply become bottom feeders in the society. And don't say I'm being stereotypical because no matter how many people do it, VERY LITTLE ever become successful in life after getting pregnant as a teen.

^Some teens enjoy being parents, though. A girl I know had a baby last month, she said she's loving every minute of it.
Yeah, Ghost Hunters will make you a believer, Derrick.
It's a pretty cool show. Some of what they find I don't think anything of, but some of it is ust downright freaky. Like the entire Eastern State Penitentiary case, and the Lighthouse they did down in florida when you could hear the voices on the freakin videos. That was just weird.

Exactly my point, you do all this, basically for no point, when you could easily just decide what is morally a sin or not....

And btw, abortion is a completely fine thing to do.If it's early, the child has never actually existed, and in most cases, if you're thinking about an abortion you are a usually a young pregnant teen, and well a child only brings more problems, and ruins that persons life for a long time to come, as they will simply become bottom feeders in the society. And don't say I'm being stereotypical because no matter how many people do it, VERY LITTLE ever become successful in life after getting pregnant as a teen.

I have already said why we do those things. The church doesn't make your decisions for you so i don't see how tithing,or going there, or hanging out with people like yourself makes any of your decisions for you so to say that we do them for no reason makes zero sense and equally to say doing those things to decide what is morally a sin or not. I say abortion is wrong, you don't....as i said earlier what is morally fine with you may not be for me. if i shot you you would obviously think it was wrong but its cool with me because i can decide on my own what is right and wrong. who are you to say what is bad and good? what right have you to decide? none. the line however is still there, and its there to be followed. you can make the conscious decision follow it or not, your decisions have consequences and i believe your conscious, little voice, whatever you want to call it is there for a reason.

ok to get into heaven, you just need to accept jesus christ as your savior. thats it! when jesus was about to die, a man next to him believed in jesus and tried to defend him. and in that split second, before he died, he ended up going to heaven.

TheWHOAmnizer, you never responded to my last post! I feel so overlooked :(

TheWHOAmnizer, you never responded to my last post! I feel so overlooked :(

yeah i know...i plan to but i wanted to look into it a bit first. haha.