Looking on these forums I've noticed something about athiests...they take the bible completely literally! This is not what it was meant for! It's a series of metaphorical stories that all have basic messages like "love your neighbor" and "be a good person". We all know it's impossible for a man to fit two of every animal on an arc right? But all these stories have messages about life and the way it should be lived. So don't take the bible literally...because that's not how it was meant to be taken! :D

So Jesus ascending into Heaven, healing the sick, etc....was that all metaphorical? Or we just associate 'metaphorical' to things already disproven by science (ie: age of the earth)

Looking on these forums I've noticed something about athiests...they take the bible completely literally! This is not what it was meant for! It's a series of metaphorical stories that all have basic messages like "love your neighbor" and "be a good person". We all know it's impossible for a man to fit two of every animal on an arch right? But all these stories have messages about life and the way it should be lived. So don't take the bible literally...because that's not how it was meant to be taken! :D
Hahaa, well we'll see what =z28= says about that..

He seems to think the bible is fact, and not a fairy tale, which you just kindly admitted. Thanks. :D


And even then, having a book of morals like that is ridiculous. That would be to say that morals originated from the Bible.. which they obviously didn't.
Merging doublepost
So Jesus ascending into Heaven, healing the sick, etc....was that all metaphorical? Or we just associate 'metaphorical' to things already disproven by science (ie: age of the earth)

Yeah, good point.
It seems like every time science proves a story in the bible couldn't have possibly happened, you all suddenly decide "Oh... well, that one wasn't meant to be taken literally.. duhr da durrr"

Nope, knew that. Really I'd say that it's some Christians who don't know as they can't see that the story of creation shouldn't be taken literally but is really metaphorical.

The old testament is more of a metaphorical thing but the new testament is just stories about Jesus
And I didn't say they were "fairy tales"..Even though by definition that's kind of what they are, that's kind of a disrespectful thing to call them

^
Need I have respect for Goldilocks and the three bears? No.

soooo... who's the one deciding what of the bible is to be taken literally and what not?

Looking on these forums I've noticed something about athiests...they take the bible completely literally! This is not what it was meant for! It's a series of metaphorical stories that all have basic messages like "love your neighbor" and "be a good person". We all know it's impossible for a man to fit two of every animal on an arch right? But all these stories have messages about life and the way it should be lived. So don't take the bible literally...because that's not how it was meant to be taken! :D

thats an argument from DOGMA. coincidence? or did you jsut watch dogma and think itd be funny to post it up here.

^I have no idea what the hell dogma is lol

soooo... who's the one deciding what of the bible is to be taken literally and what not?
well if you read the bible, or any religious book for that matter, you can pretty much tell for yourself what stories are metaphores and which ones are supposed to be true
^
Need I have respect for Goldilocks and the three bears? No.
well then I have no respect for you!! kidding, what I meant is you shouldn't call the bible a fairy tale because it's disrespecting so many people who take it seriousely. If someone called my skateboard a children's toy, I'd be a little mad. Just because you don't believe the same thing someone does doen't mean you can make fun of what they believe or you'll seem like a jerk (I don't think you're a jerk, I'm just saying)

We all know it's impossible for a man to fit two of every animal on an arc right?

Not unless you brought them on as babies.

That's what you believe, don't go saying it's what all Christians believe and saying it's a set in stone fact.

I believe the Bible from front to back. Nothing is impossible for God.

Not unless you brought them on as babies.

YES! Almost everyone I've talked to thinks that the ark was full of fully grown animals, Noah most likely brought babies.

Also, it was two of every KIND of animal, not two of every species. Like, instead of bringing two of every breed of dog, he brought two generic dogs, who through "Micro Evolution" brought us all the different breeds we see today.

Now, I believe in Micro evolution, that actually does happen. Where a dog will have a different type of dog, long hair, short hair, little, big, black, white, ect... But it's still a dog.

Anyway, another thing. It was only land animals he brought on the ark, no fish, no flying birds, no bugs.

Nothing is impossible for God.

Can God create a rock he can't pick up and still be able to pick it up?

That's what you believe, don't go saying it's what all Christians believe and saying it's a set in stone fact.

I believe the Bible from front to back. Nothing is impossible for God.

Maybe you'll be lucky enough to have your entire family killed, livestock killed, covered in boils and have horrible diseases!

I think that everyone needs to shut the *&#% up about it. Who cares.
If all the athiests are wrong then they will get to hevean and be "damnnnn" then get sent to hell.
on the other hand if the christians are wrong then they won't know now will they.
For all any of you know everyones wrong and something crazy happens when you die.

well then I have no respect for you!! kidding, what I meant is you shouldn't call the bible a fairy tale because it's disrespecting so many people who take it seriousely. If someone called my skateboard a children's toy, I'd be a little mad. Just because you don't believe the same thing someone does doen't mean you can make fun of what they believe or you'll seem like a jerk (I don't think you're a jerk, I'm just saying)I have no respect for such a story as Santa Claus either, but hey, MILLIONS of people believe in santa claus.

and again, haha, you don't see them organizing and trying to make gay marriage illegal.
{rf)

An idea doesn't become more "true" or gain more respect as it gains more deluded followers

on the other hand if the christians are wrong then they won't know now will they.

Not necessarily, the Hindu's might be right...Krishna came before Abrahaim and thus before any of the 3 major monotheistic religions.

So you can still go to Hell, like others had said:
Nothing is impossible for God.

I think that everyone needs to shut the *&#% up about it. Who cares.
If all the athiests are wrong then they will get to hevean and be "damnnnn" then get sent to hell.
on the other hand if the christians are wrong then they won't know now will they.
For all any of you know everyones wrong and something crazy happens when you die.
Yes, because obviously Christianity and Atheism are the only two belief systems out there.

Can God create a rock he can't pick up and still be able to pick it up?

Umm.... what?

Since when can't He pick up the rock?

Umm.... what?

Since when can't He pick up the rock?

It's a play of words that contradicts his omnipotence.

Umm.... what?

Since when can't He pick up the rock?
I spell it out a little easier.

God creates a rock that is impossible to be picked up.

Nothing is impossible for God.
So can God pick up that rock?

What exactly is the lesson we are supposed to learn from the parable of creation?

I spell it out a little easier.

God creates a rock that is impossible to be picked up.


So can God pick up that rock?

Ohhh, ok, I get you.

Yes, He can do both not be able to pick up the rock and be able to pick it up. God is in a completely different dimension than us, something our little brains stuck in the third dimension can't figure out. Don't look at it with a human "logical" mind, because our laws of matter and what not only applies to humans. God has no limits.

Ohhh, ok, I get you.

Yes, He can do both not be able to pick up the rock and be able to pick it up. God is in a completely different dimension than us, something our little brains stuck in the third dimension can't figure out. Don't look at it with a human "logical" mind, because our laws of matter and what not only applies to humans. God has no limits.

Pathetic answer really. One, He can't do both at the same time, that's the point of the question.

Two, if God's so complex how was he able to exist as something as simple as a human being?

Three, why would God create these laws only to break them himself? Obviously he would have had to break the law of conservation of matter just to create us.

Here's another question for you, if God wants us to believe in him so much why did He make so hard for us to comprehend him?

Personally, I don't know why I am even asking the questions. Chances are the it'll be the same answer, God is too complex for us to understand.

Pathetic answer really. One, He can't do both at the same time, that's the point of the question.

Oh, but He can.

Two, if God's so complex how was he able to exist as something as simple as a human being?

God can do anything.

Three, why would God create these laws only to break them himself? Obviously he would have had to break the law of conservation of matter just to create us.

He cannot break laws that were not created for God. The laws we have today are for humans.


Here's another question for you, if God wants us to believe in him so much why did He make so hard for us to comprehend him?

It's not hard, just takes faith. Read the Bible, everything you need to know is in there. I think of it this way...

People say they don't want to be a Christian because there's no "proof" God exists. Let me ask you something, would you go on a game show if you weren't guaranteed that you'd win? Of course you would!

Now, say there were two options.

One is a million dollars, and the other, you go home empty handed. Which would you choose?

Now, look at that with a Christian vs. non-Christian perspective.

One grants you an Almighty God that loves you and wants you to come live with Him in paradise for eternity. Cost? No cost, it's free. You just have to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior.

Second one, you don't get anything, you're just there, you came from an accidental boom, and you serve no purpose on the planet. In fact, you're part of the problem, you created global warming and polluted the earth. The less of you guys the better. And abortion is doing a "good job" with that. But that's a whole other argument.

Which one would you choose?

No cost, it's free. You just have to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior

Not true. I would have to break up with the person I love, marry some one Im not attracted to, follow rules I do not believe in, stop doing many things I currently enjoy. All of that for the smallest possibility that I will be "saved".

Not true. I would have to break up with the person I love, marry some one Im not attracted to, follow rules I do not believe in, stop doing many things I currently enjoy. All of that for the smallest possibility that I will be "saved".

A common misconception. Come to the Lord as you are, he'll take you in.

A genuine believer will become transformed in the mind (romans). Faith, bible reading, prayer, and you my friend, WILL have an entirely different attitude, perspective on things, and personality. I've personally experienced this.

With God, anything is possible.
____________________
and my thoughts on this thread, some is literal (creation IS, Noah did have 2 of each animal. Most were probably infants, in order to have the highest reproduction possible, and also less space.). Some is also metaphorical. It doesn't even matter though. Everyone interprets the Bible differently. With the Holy Spirit aiding, you will know what God is telling you through his living words. It might be a universal truth, or a universal tidbit of wisdom. It's too incredible. Other times there are parables which are stories with a meaning. Someone WITHOUT God's help will not be able to understand the word, unless God has pity on them and decides to open their eyes. Sound crazy? Yup. Tryin to feed meat to babies probably don't work out too well.

I am not heterosexual, your God condemend non-heteros to hell

I do not believe that many of the laws of your God are moral or correct. THe Bible says you must follow the rules of go, or be condemend to hell.

I enjoy my mixed fabric clothing. Your God teaches they are an abomination to him.

I could go on, but you get the picture, sk8boarders analogy is very very far from the truth.

Oh, but He can.



God can do anything.



He cannot break laws that were not created for God. The laws we have today are for humans.


Again, pathetic you're only logic is "He's God so he can do it!" You have no other evidence.


People say they don't want to be a Christian because there's no "proof" God exists. Let me ask you something, would you go on a game show if you weren't guaranteed that you'd win? Of course you would!

Now, say there were two options.

One is a million dollars, and the other, you go home empty handed. Which would you choose?

Now, look at that with a Christian vs. non-Christian perspective.

One grants you an Almighty God that loves you and wants you to come live with Him in paradise for eternity. Cost? No cost, it's free. You just have to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior.

This just shows that you are ignorant when you think the only to belief systems to choose from in life are Christianity and atheism.


Second one, you don't get anything, you're just there, you came from an accidental boom, and you serve no purpose on the planet. In fact, you're part of the problem, you created global warming and polluted the earth. The less of you guys the better. And abortion is doing a "good job" with that. But that's a whole other argument.

Which one would you choose?
One, where's your proof that this "boom" was accidental.

Two, I serve no purpose? What's your purpose and how do you know I don't have one?

Three, non-Christians created global warming and polluted the Earth? Again, where's your proof of that?

The less of you guys the better.
Really because I don't believe atheists started the Crusades, share their beliefs with the KKK who use God to justify their racism, go around with signs saying "God Hates Fags" or gruesome pictures of dead fetuses, oppress the rights of others because of their beliefs, try to put religion into science class even though it violates separation of church and state ...

Like you said, a man putting two of every animal is obviously a story. Right? Then why isnt the entire bible?

Little history lesson kidies. Back in the 1500's books were almost impossible to find. No one wrote them, because if it was even perhaps decent, they were forced to make many copies. That could take years. Back in the "coming of jesus" there were no books period. No one wrote them, because (As depicted in the bible, Go figure!) everyone was at war and nobody writes books for just their people, as cities only had a several hundred people. So back then, it was impossible for them to pass down stories for so long, as far as the TEN COMMANDMENTS, to be written in the twentieth century, when books are mass produced.

Basically, im sure jesus didnt say "Pass my teaching on through your grandchildren, for the next two thousand years, oh, and was anyone there when my dad gave you guys a big rock with the morals of life on them? Yeah, tell them that one too.

Basically, the bible you worship is a mass-produced piece of paper that was made in a factory just like your "organic" foods, and your normal foods.

Sk8boarder, I'm sorry, but those are REALLY pathetic answers.

Little history lesson kidies.
This coming from an 11 year old.

Back in the 1500's books were almost impossible to find. No one wrote them, because if it was even perhaps decent, they were forced to make many copies. That could take years. Back in the "coming of jesus" there were no books period. No one wrote them, because (As depicted in the bible, Go figure!) everyone was at war and nobody writes books for just their people, as cities only had a several hundred people. So back then, it was impossible for them to pass down stories for so long, as far as the TEN COMMANDMENTS, to be written in the twentieth century, when books are mass produced.
Basically you can ignore what he said right here as he is wrong about the whole no books written in the 1500s, Gutenberg had invented the movable printing in 1450 I believe which helped the production of books which were written unlike ForumSkater thinks before the twentieth century. And two, there were famous writers from the 1500s, ever heard of Shakespeare?

If you are going to try to debate actually think out what you are going to say instead of saying the first thing that comes to your head and you think sounds smart.

For every answer than came from our minds, you simple say " He is god, he can do that"

Thats exactly why we are athiest. You say the same junk pertaining to god as if he can do anything. We want to discuss logic. You want to say that god can do anything and that we are all non-believers and are going to hell.

The thing is, we have a good argument, you have NOTHING!
Merging doublepost
This coming from an 11 year old.


Basically you can ignore what he said right here as he is wrong about the whole no books written in the 1500s, Gutenberg had invented the movable printing in 1450 I believe which helped the production of books which were written unlike ForumSkater thinks. And two, there were famous writers from the 1500s, ever heard of Shakespeare?

If you are going to try to debate actually think out what you are going to say instead of saying the first thing that comes to your head and you think sounds smart.


Yes. Its coming from an 11 year old. I dont see anything that says "11 year olds are retards and you cant listen to them or your going to hell!"

Thanks for the point. Around the 1450's the movable type was made. Before that, what i said was true. The movable type helped making books a lot, but you could still only make 20 books or so a year. Not nearly enough for England. Thats why Shakespear wrote plays and performed them to a large audience. Thats why he didnt write too many books, because not everyone could have one. Everyone wanted one.

Im 11. That doesnt mean that i say random junk, unlike well... you.

Yes. Its coming from an 11 year old. I dont see anything that says "11 year olds are retards and you cant listen to them or your going to hell!"

One, don't give a crap how old you are, still wouldn't listen to a word you say, and where did I say you're going to hell? I don't believe in it, what I do believe is you an idiot.

Thanks for the point. Around the 1450's the movable type was made. Before that, what i said was true. The movable type helped making books a lot, but you could still only make 20 books or so a year. Not nearly enough for England. Thats why Shakespear wrote plays and performed them to a large audience. Thats why he didnt write too many books, because not everyone could have one. Everyone wanted one.

Im 11. That doesnt mean that i say random junk, unlike well... you.

You're still wrong, you were going on about how there were "no books in the 1500s" yet you're talking about a period in the middle of the Renaissance, so I'll say it again, actually think about what you're saying before you post it thinking it sounds smart.

This just shows that you are ignorant when you think the only to belief systems to choose from in life are Christianity and atheism.

I'm not saying that, there's tons of other beliefs, I know that, I'm just trying to put it as black and white as I can. Since I'm a Christian, you're a non-Christian.

Don't tell me what I think, ok?

One, where's your proof that this "boom" was accidental.

I don't have proof the boom was accidental, in fact, there's no solid proof that this boom ever existed.

Two, I serve no purpose? What's your purpose and how do you know I don't have one?

Yeah, you serve a purpose, God created you and has a plan for your life, rather or not you accept it is your choice. I'm saying, if it were true that there were no God, you're just here, you're just messing up the natural system with the pollution and what not.

I believe my purpose is to serve God with my life, go out and spread the good news of Jesus' returning.

**Note. When I say "You're" it's referring to humans in general, not just non-Christians, don't start getting the idea that I think that Christians are perfect and non-Christians are meaningless. We're all sinners but God loves us all.

Three, non-Christians created global warming and polluted the Earth? Again, where's your proof of that?

No, they didn't, we all did. Read above^^.

I'm sorry, I'm not the best at speaking, so allot of what I say isn't exactly clear, so bare with me.

Really because I don't believe atheists started the Crusades, share their beliefs with the KKK who use God to justify their racism, go around with signs saying "God Hates Fags" or gruesome pictures of dead fetuses, oppress the rights of others because of their beliefs, try to put religion into science class even though it violates separation of church and state ...

Well, from what I heard, the whole reason for the holocaust and many other wars, was, well, evolution! Hitler, after reading Darwin's book, believed that he was the most evolved race, the "Aryan" race, blond hair, blue eyes, ect... were better than all the races and he wanted to help natural selection along.

Also, I don't agree with the people that carry signs around saying God hates fags, hate the sin, not the sinner. I'm also not for carrying around signs of dead fetuses. I'm pro-life, I believe that abortion is murder, but I would carry around a picture of a live baby that's about the same age as those that they're murdering. Ha, rights? What rights are those that you're enforcing? The right to kill?

I'm not trying to get religion into science class, but I am trying to get evolution out of it. Because it's just as much a "religion" as Christianity is.

By the way, I don't have all the answers, I don't want to come across with the appearance that I think I do, because I know I don't.


For every answer than came from our minds, you simple say " He is god, he can do that"

Thats exactly why we are athiest. You say the same junk pertaining to god as if he can do anything. We want to discuss logic. You want to say that god can do anything and that we are all non-believers and are going to hell.

The thing is, we have a good argument, you have NOTHING!

And, what is that good argument?

^^^ evolution is based on science which is why it's taught in science classes, it's not religion at all

and the rights christians deny other people because of their beliefs would be like gay marriage

and i laughed hella hard when i read that you would carry around a sign with a living baby the same age as babies that get aborted. i would love for you to carry around a sign with a fetus that's barely recognizable as a baby

Every time I read that abortion is murder I want to murder some of these pro lifers. Especially when it's some 13 year old kid who has yet to be raped or when it's an old ugly hag.

Seriously gtfo.

^^^ evolution is based on science which is why it's taught in science classes, it's not religion at all

and the rights christians deny other people because of their beliefs would be like gay marriage

and i laughed hella hard when i read that you would carry around a sign with a living baby the same age as babies that get aborted. i would love for you to carry around a sign with a fetus that's barely recognizable as a baby

Evolution is a theory, not science. There's no proof for it, yet it's taught as if it were set in stone truth, and you get the third degree if you question it.

And I could care less if gays get married or not honestly, not my place to judge them. I don't agree with it, but it's not my business.

Recognizable or not, it's still a baby. Does that mean we should kill deformed people? I mean, if they're barely recognizable as humans, might as well do away with them, right?

Evolution is a theory, not science. There's no proof for it, yet it's taught as if it were set in stone truth, and you get the third degree if you question it.


How many times do people in here have to explain that the word theory in science is not the same as theory you think about.

A scientist has an hypothesis and if enough evidence is gathered it becomes a theory. Theory of gravity. OMG IT'S JUST A THEORY SO IT'S NOT REAL!!!!!

Evolution has yet to be disproved after 150 years of gathering evidence for/against it.

Evolution is a theory, not science. There's no proof for it, yet it's taught as if it were set in stone truth, and you get the third degree if you question it.

And I could care less if gays get married or not honestly, not my place to judge them. I don't agree with it, but it's not my business.

Recognizable or not, it's still a baby. Does that mean we should kill deformed people? I mean, if they're barely recognizable as humans, might as well do away with them, right?

gravity is a theory, so i guess it's not science either. a theory is the highest level in science. absolutely nothing in science is set in stone. evolution is as much science as anything else

and you acted like you didn't know what rights christians deny other people so i pointed out gay marriage

talk to me about your pro life position when your a 15 year old rape victim living in poverty already

Evolution is a theory, not science. There's no proof for it, yet it's taught as if it were set in stone truth, and you get the third degree if you question it.

But what do you, as a Christian, have to back up the validity of Christianity exactly, apart from your own personal beliefs and 'experiences' (which shouldn't get in the way here since they are completely subjective, while we are talking about objective evidence here) ? At least scientists have always been doing a lot of research, studying, observing and analysing in order to try to understand where we come from, and provide the world with a logical explanation of our origins. And I'm sure that if they ever happened to be proven wrong at some point somehow, they wouldn't mind starting their research from scratch again, because what matters to them is to look for the actual truth, not to defend their version of the human history at the expense of logic, which is, and I hate to say it, the way Christianity usually goes - scientists would actually like to be proven wrong by an unquestionable contradiction in order to correct themselves, while Christians tend to keep on believing blindly even when confronted to stone cold facts, by figuring out a way around them, in order to stay as true to their faith as possible.

In a nutshell, isn't it logical to give more credit to expert scientists who have been doing a lot of actual active research and are looking for an objective truth, rather than to some random 2000-year old fairy tale (not willing to insult your beliefs, but that's the value the Bible has for non-Christians, which I'm sure you can understand) with no scientific value ?

I don't have proof the boom was accidental, in fact, there's no solid proof that this boom ever existed.

Since when was proof important to you?

Yeah, you serve a purpose, God created you and has a plan for your life, rather or not you accept it is your choice. I'm saying, if it were true that there were no God, you're just here, you're just messing up the natural system with the pollution and what not.

Why do you believe you're owe'd a purpose? What's the purpose of a simply house fly, living for a mere 24 hrs? What's its purpose? To fly circles around feces then die?

Well, from what I heard, the whole reason for the holocaust and many other wars, was, well, evolution! Hitler, after reading Darwin's book, believed that he was the most evolved race, the "Aryan" race, blond hair, blue eyes, ect... were better than all the races and he wanted to help natural selection along.

Dumb, Dumb, Dumb....

Hitler was a Eugenic maniac...he didn't understand evolution nor the concepts of it. As a matter of fact, what does this prove anyway...assuming he was inspired by Darwin?

Bin Laden believes in God, as do many other leaders of the most atrocious crimes in history, yet we don't use this to disprove anything...

What rights are those that you're enforcing? The right to kill?

What about killing animals? Are you a non-vegan? You support killing as well

I'm not trying to get religion into science class, but I am trying to get evolution out of it. Because it's just as much a "religion" as Christianity is.

This is what happens when you're brainwashed and indoctrinated with dogma...

take note children

Here's another question for you, if God wants us to believe in him so much why did He make so hard for us to comprehend him?

Personally, I don't know why I am even asking the questions. Chances are the it'll be the same answer, God is too complex for us to understand.
When you think about it though, with or without gods, the universe is just as incomprehendiale. Like there's no evidence to support God exists, but when you really think about it, it's ipossible for time and matter to go on for ever. Which means that either time and matter had a beginning and will have an end, or they are cyclical. But whether they have a beginning and end or they're cyclical, there has to be something outside the circle or straight line of time and matter. This REALLY makes me frusterated to think about lol

I'm not saying that, there's tons of other beliefs, I know that, I'm just trying to put it as black and white as I can. Since I'm a Christian, you're a non-Christian.

Don't tell me what I think, ok?

I'm not telling you what you think, I just think it's pretty dumb that you took a very gray matter such as religion and tried to make it black and white to make it look like you are the one making the smarter choice to believe in Christianity.

I don't have proof the boom was accidental, in fact, there's no solid proof that this boom ever existed.

Then don't say it was accidental unless you know for a fact it was. You know what else there is no solid proof for? The existence of God.

Yeah, you serve a purpose, God created you and has a plan for your life, rather or not you accept it is your choice. I'm saying, if it were true that there were no God, you're just here, you're just messing up the natural system with the pollution and what not.

So you're saying that we need someone else to give us a purpose and we can't create our own in this lifetime? That's just a pathetic argument, people make things happen, not God.

**Note. When I say "You're" it's referring to humans in general, not just non-Christians, don't start getting the idea that I think that Christians are perfect and non-Christians are meaningless. We're all sinners but God loves us all.
Then you just have bad grammar skills and should have used we or maybe you were hoping that people would take it that you were referring to non-Christians?

Well, from what I heard, the whole reason for the holocaust and many other wars, was, well, evolution! Hitler, after reading Darwin's book, believed that he was the most evolved race, the "Aryan" race, blond hair, blue eyes, ect... were better than all the races and he wanted to help natural selection along.

Razz summed up how pathetic and dumb this argument was. +rep for you.

Ha, rights? What rights are those that you're enforcing?
How about the right to marry? Christians don't seem to mind oppressing homosexuals that right, tell me, is oppression a Christian value?

I'm not trying to get religion into science class, but I am trying to get evolution out of it. Because it's just as much a "religion" as Christianity is.
McCrank got this one down:
How many times do people in here have to explain that the word theory in science is not the same as theory you think about.

A scientist has an hypothesis and if enough evidence is gathered it becomes a theory. Theory of gravity. OMG IT'S JUST A THEORY SO IT'S NOT REAL!!!!!

Evolution has yet to be disproved after 150 years of gathering evidence for/against it.
Tell me with that in mind do you think gravity shouldn't be taught in school? It is just a theory.

Or what would you suggest we teach instead of evolution? Intelligent design? Because that obviously that has nothing to do with religion and has all the evidence in the world.


By the way, I don't have all the answers, I don't want to come across with the appearance that I think I do, because I know I don't.
I find it funny that you hear this from Christians so much yet the same Christians are usually so eager to point out that science doesn't have all the answers.

So this is an interesting thread.... I have a few questions/contributions... To give you a background, I consider myself a Christian. I believe in God and that Jesus is the son of God and our Savior and all of that, but... I am VERY open minded to everything. My husband is not a Christian so I am very accepting of people as they are. With that said, some things I'm curious about and would like to put up for discussiong/reflectiong....

I honestly have no idea how we got here or came about. The story of Creation in the Bible is likely a metaphor for something and not EXACTLY how it happen if it happened that way. There are quite a few different theories on how we got here so in reality no one honestly knows. This differs from the theory of gravity because there is ONE theory of gravity while there are quite a few different ways we explain our existance and none of them have yet to be COMPLTELY proven or disproven including Evolution, the Big Bang, and Creationism. My question with all of this though, and I'm not trying to prove a point or anything it's just something I think about in my head.... Say we all started from a single cell organism and everything evolved into what it is today. So where did that initial single cell organism come from? Who/What/put it here/How'd it get here?? So then we take the Big Bang theory and say poof there was just this Big Bang and everything came from that. As far as my knowledge goes and someone may be able to explain it to me, we can't answer what exactly caused it, why that happened, or where it suddenly came from. In my mind, I don't really believe that God came down and say "Poof there's a tree" but maybe the first single cell organism or the sudden occurance of the "big bang" was in fact God.

Ok then on a different note, I personally find the majority of Christians and Christian teaching SO far off of what it's really all supposed to be about. I know that the Bible says that homosexuality is wrong, but who are we to judge people that are homosexual and tell them that they are going to hell??? Or even who are we to tell non believers to that they are going to hell???? We don't know that for sure! The Bible says we should not judge and that God has final judgement. By saying these things to these people, though, aren't we judging??? This is a perfect story to show where Christianity has gone so wrong now a days. In John chaper 8 there is the story about the women who committed adultery and she is condemned to be stoned to death. But Jesus stops them and says "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" Jesus is saying it's not their right to judge what happens to her. And after that Jesus forgives her of her sin! It seems most Christians today would just go ahead and throw the stones because they felt that what they believed to be true is right. I know that Christians have their beliefs in what is right and what is wrong, but they shouldn't FORCE these beliefs on others. They should welcome nonbelievers with open arms and welcome the opportunity to talk with them. IF the non believers finds some type of path with Christianity then great. If not then it is NO Chritians right to judge that person or influence what happens to them. According to TRUE Christian belief, that's up to God.

Sorry this is so long. Just thought I'd add in my two sense. And this is ALL just my two sense. I also know that not all Christians are how i described. I was just saying that quite a few are and even if they aren't this is often the image that Christians today portray. Anyways... feel free to fill me in on any of your knowledge or opinions as well. I'm always open to others' opinions as long as they keep an open mind too.

There are quite a few different theories on how we got here so in reality no one honestly knows. This differs from the theory of gravity because there is ONE theory of gravity while there are quite a few different ways we explain our existance and none of them have yet to be COMPLTELY proven or disproven including Evolution, the Big Bang, and Creationism.

There is only 1 scientific theory on how life got here and it's called the theory of evolution. Not the "I have a hunch" kind of theory...

It's hard to completely prove that evolution is the absolute truth because we don't have all the answers. But after 150 years all evidence support evolution. Scientists keep looking for more evidence and someday they might even find something that turns evolution on it's head. who knows. Unlike some old guess called Christianity who just went with 1 idea and threatened with hellfire if you disagreed.

Holy sh*t scientists can't prove the big bang so I'm gonna go with the idea of a god! at least it has a book telling it's the absolute truth! F*CKING BRILLIANT!

Maybe it's completely wrong to trust today's science and technology compared to stories told by desert nomads 2000 years ago?!?! When was the last time you thought Scientology to be true? Why isn't it true? BECAUSE IT WAS F*CKING MADE UP!

^ One more note about the Hitler comparisons, for anybody who's ever approached by a creationist trying to compare Hitler and evolution, just say these two things:

1) Hitler didn't practice the theory of evolution correctly, he practiced Eugenics which is defined as: (The application of the principles of genetics to the "improvement" of humankind)
&
2) An evil man believing in a concept wouldn't invalidate it's validity to begin with. Hitler also grew up a roman catholic and ended up hating the Jews, would it make any sense to use his religion as a means to justify his actions?

My question with all of this though, and I'm not trying to prove a point or anything it's just something I think about in my head.... Say we all started from a single cell organism and everything evolved into what it is today. So where did that initial single cell organism come from? Who/What/put it here/How'd it get here?? So then we take the Big Bang theory and say poof there was just this Big Bang and everything came from that. As far as my knowledge goes and someone may be able to explain it to me, we can't answer what exactly caused it, why that happened, or where it suddenly came from. In my mind, I don't really believe that God came down and say "Poof there's a tree" but maybe the first single cell organism or the sudden occurance of the "big bang" was in fact God.

Great question.

First, let's understand one thing: evolution does not explain the origins of life, but rather, the evolution of species - know what I mean? If you want to read about the origins of life, that's in a field different than evolution (which is biology)...the other field is called Abiogenesis (chemistry). In other words, the big bang,etc is completely separate from evolution. No one knows where we came from, physicists and chemists are constantly working to figure that out...religious people think they have the answer.

Let me give you an analogy. Let's say I invited you and your husband to go see David Copperfield and he performs an illusion in which his body appears to slice in half...now, you and your husband are flabbergasted and have no idea how it was done...

And let's just assume you guys asked the person next to you and he said: "I don't know how it happened, but it was definitely magic" - question: would you believe him? Probably not...but why not? Lack of evidence perhaps?

My point is this, just because we don't know it wouldn't do us any good to make up answers. Just like the man who sat next to you threw his hands up in the air and screamed 'magic' - it'd do us no good to simply take his word for it without evidence. Evolution has been proven, the only ones who deny our evolution are people who believe in a particular religion, which begins with a dogmatic perspective.

PS: Just look at these debates right now. Look at the difference between the Christian debaters and the Atheist/Agnostic ones. If you pay attention to what's presented, you'll know why most scientists (and dare I say intellects) choose the rational-based way. You see things like "God dun it!" or "Hitler believed in evolution therefore it's evil and wrong!" or "Yeah, but it's onnnnnly a theory!"

They say it without understanding a single thing about evolution or science, but just regurgitate canned responses

the ONLY evolution that has been proven is the small differences between the canine families, the feline families, humans, and other species.

there is absolutely no proof that (an exaggerated example to proof a point) a dog can mate with a dog and get a cat. same species ALWAYS reproduce after their own kind. PERIOD. mutations = handicaps and most result in immediate death. Oh, don't believe me? Get some subjects, and force mutations by giving them radiation, see what happens. you'll note that defects = not good. sometimes you have to take a step back to look at things a bit easier.

there is absolutely no proof that (an exaggerated example to proof a point) a dog can mate with a dog and get a cat.

You are the dumbest human being I have ever ran across on a forum. Anyone who thinks evolution EVEN PRETENDS TO STATE that one animal completely transforms to another is an idiot.

Tell me something right now, why is it that the most prominent Christian scientists like Kenneth Miller, Francis Collins, and Allister McGrath all believe in the theory of evolution?

the mutations you're talking about and the mutations in the theory of evolution are completely different

You are the dumbest human being I have ever ran across on a forum.

yes razz, i love you too... but Jesus the Christ loves you much more. So much that he died for you. Have a great day. :icon_hug:

As I said before, exaggerated to make a point... clearly the words I speak seem to evade some people's minds. Not my problem.

You are the dumbest human being I have ever ran across on a forum.
SECONDED!!! Though this probably won't mean much to =Z28=, he thinks Satan has control over me.
Merging doublepost
yes razz, i love you too... but Jesus the Christ loves you much more. So much that he died for you. Have a great day. :icon_hug:

As I said before, exaggerated to make a point... clearly the words I speak seem to evade some people's minds. Not my problem.

Way to go and avoid the point of the post and the question with it by pulling the whole "Jesus and I love you" to side step the post ... again.

the ONLY evolution that has been proven is the small differences between the canine families, the feline families, humans, and other species.

there is absolutely no proof that (an exaggerated example to proof a point) a dog can mate with a dog and get a cat. same species ALWAYS reproduce after their own kind. PERIOD. mutations = handicaps and most result in immediate death. Oh, don't believe me? Get some subjects, and force mutations by giving them radiation, see what happens. you'll note that defects = not good. sometimes you have to take a step back to look at things a bit easier.

hOIoq-d4_Nk

Not necessarily, the Hindu's might be right...Krishna came before Abrahaim and thus before any of the 3 major monotheistic religions.

So you can still go to Hell, like others had said:

I knew this would be brough up somewhere along, I figured that after I posted and didn't feel like editing it.

As I said before, exaggerated to make a point... clearly the words I speak seem to evade some people's minds. Not my problem.

You may be exaggerating to make a point, but it doesn't change the fact that you have no clue about what you're talking about, and this very ignorance is the only thing your exaggerations put emphasis on. Maybe do some research with an open mind about your subject before criticizing it ? I've seen countless people doing their best to try to explain you what evolution actually is on this forum (because you obviously don't even know what it is), but you don't seem to make any progress, your only reaction is to systematically resort to your beliefs, making everything sterile.

Read this again :

Anyone who thinks evolution EVEN PRETENDS TO STATE that one animal completely transforms to another is an idiot.
the mutations you're talking about and the mutations in the theory of evolution are completely different

... do some research, learn, then come again ?

There is only 1 scientific theory on how life got here and it's called the theory of evolution. Not the "I have a hunch" kind of theory...
yeah she said that evolution probably has happened over time, and I believe that too. But it's NOT how life got here. It's just how life forms changed over time. How did the first single-celled organism get here?? Evolution? No! That doesn't make sense. So I think it's been established that eveolution is baically a fact, but that's not answering the wuestion of how life started at all.

yeah she said that evolution probably has happened over time, and I believe that too. But it's NOT how life got here. It's just how life forms changed over time. How did the first single-celled organism get here?? Evolution? No! That doesn't make sense. So I think it's been established that eveolution is baically a fact, but that's not answering the wuestion of how life started at all.

I was aware a little after I posted that my statement is wrong in that sense and isn't entirely correct, but razz posted the correct reason why life is here.

ozbFerzjkz4
Explains it pretty good.

nice video McCrank, knew most of it, and all the basics behind it, as well as the whole process and Miller-Urey experiments etc... but I've never heard of Montberyllinite, which is very cool as a catalyst.

And I can't remember how many times I've tried my absolute darndest to explain evolution in these forums, spending up to an hour typing out explanations, only to be given replies like "Well, isn't that mr. crocodile smart for hopping out of the water." or "Frogs and lizards aren't the same thing!" At this point, I think we should just put Z28 up for a darwin award, because I'm sure he's never going to mate, as that's a sin unless you're married, and that pretty much eliminates him from the mainstream societal genepool.

Hear that Z28, I'm awarding you. =)

Has anyone ever heard of a scientist that denies evolution but accepts creationism (or parts of it) and is not a Christian? I don't think I've ever heard of one...

^^ maybe a hindu scientist?
Merging doublepost
I don't know a lot about hinduism though, so maybe they believe in evolution I dunno

Looking on these forums I've noticed something about athiests...they take the bible completely literally! This is not what it was meant for! It's a series of metaphorical stories that all have basic messages like "love your neighbor" and "be a good person". We all know it's impossible for a man to fit two of every animal on an arc right? But all these stories have messages about life and the way it should be lived. So don't take the bible literally...because that's not how it was meant to be taken! :D

Wrong...every story in the Bible is true from beginning to end. Do you attend church? If so what are their beliefs? You shouldn't talk for your self when describing what the whole population of Christians believe.

Yes, the arc was real and yes every kind of animal (male and female of each) did fit into it. In todays measurements the arc was the like the size of a football field or something.

Wrong...every story in the Bible is true from beginning to end. Do you attend church? If so what are their beliefs? You shouldn't talk for your self when describing what the whole population of Christians believe.

Yes, the arc was real and yes every kind of animal (male and female of each) did fit into it. In todays measurements the arc was the like the size of a football field or something.

Bigger than that. It took 100 years to build. Think about how big it'd've had to be.

It states in the bible that only certain people should teach the bible. Certain people such as pastors, deacons, and the affiliated. Those who interepret it incorrectly have their punishment...hm

Now this doesnt conflict with the ideal that the bible can be applied to many situations-in fact for me...i take many of the stories to a more personal feel.

That is why i think these arguments are in vain.
All sides are entitled to their opinions. Stubborn to their beliefs or choice to not believe in anything.

The common thing i see in these debates is to break a person down to the point where they are made to look like an idiot.
For those who say "the bible isnt literal" "the bible is fiction" the bible is whatever. take it or leave it. you have option. dont corrupt another person and bring them down to a level where they themselves are not confident in their faith...or their lack of faith. you have option.

Wrong...every story in the Bible is true from beginning to end. Do you attend church? If so what are their beliefs? You shouldn't talk for your self when describing what the whole population of Christians believe.

Yes, the arc was real and yes every kind of animal (male and female of each) did fit into it. In todays measurements the arc was the like the size of a football field or something.

Amazing isn't it, the size of a football field and not a single peace of evidence to be found...

That alone is a miracle!

you don't understand the Bible, because you don't have the Holy Spirit... and you ain't a Christian!

i know peeps who claim a relationship with Christ, go out drink and smoke, no wonder they find metaphors where there isn't any.

you can have an unsaved arrogant person learn the Bible front to back, memorize it. this person can talk the talk very well, but will not walk the walk. this means they know what the Bible says, but they CANNOT live what it says, incapable of it.

thru Grace, mercy, faith, humility, are we able to be with Christ... and understand him.

woe to them who THINK they knew him, or THINK they know him, but their actions say otherwise. game recognize game, if you've ever tasted God then you would never turn away. can't fool us.

edit - SWEET. negative rep! fill it up, razz.

Amazing isn't it, the size of a football field and not a single peace of evidence to be found...

That alone is a miracle!

this site says the remains were found in turkey.

http://www.noahsark-naxuan.com/1.htm

this site says the remains were found in turkey.

http://www.noahsark-naxuan.com/1.htm
Yeah that's not real.

Umm.... what?

Since when can't He pick up the rock?

Could Jesus heat a pancake so hot that He himself could not pick it up?


Amazing isn't it, the size of a football field and not a single peace of evidence to be found...

That alone is a miracle!

The magic of Christianity. :biggrin:

Disproving evolution by saying two dogs can't make a cat.

ROFL!!!!

Sorry, I'm not gonna get into this because I know my posts wouldn't be better than MRCK or razz's.. and there's not much intelligent discussion to get into in any case, it's just total atheist ownage.

That's what you believe, don't go saying it's what all Christians believe and saying it's a set in stone fact.

I believe the Bible from front to back. Nothing is impossible for God.


So you believe Joshua stopped the sun in the sky?

SPOILER ALERT!

The sun doesn't move :icon_roll

It's been so long since I have posted in these forums. I just spent the 20 minutes reading thru this topic and now I'm reminded why I left. As it appears, at least Rebel is not spewing garbage right now. To each their own, however, some on this board are coming across like they're Elias from CLerks 2. Regardless,
I think that one of the most important roles we have as human beings is to always question. If we do not then we are simply living lives as sheep and that is such a precarious path to take in life. Why take things for granted? Why just assume that what you're being told is the truth? Why not ask yourself why you think it is the truth? Why not ask why some sects of Christianity will not recognize other religions? Why not ask why religion is the cause of nearly all wars? Why not ask if God truly loves all his children then why does he love some more than others? If you answer to yourself that it's because god has a plan for all his children, then why not ask how his plan is so lopsided. There are so many millions dying and suffering in Africa. Why ,is it because they don't believe enough or pray hard enough and are being punished? Why not ask why groups like Westboro Baptist Church of Kansas can spread so much hatred, all in the name of god? Why not ask why God's Army condones violence and murder, all in the name of god? Ask why so many other religious extremists can spread such hatred and violence towards other non-believers. Ask, if Christs return is imminent then why bother worrying about global warming, famine or the environment? If the end of days are upon us then why bother caring for mother earth?

Question and question again the siginificance of your existence as a human being. If you don't, then you are a disservice to mankind. If no-one ever questioned, then we would still be living on a flat planet, and treating fevers with blood letting.

I agree with fogle.

The Bible is not meant to be taken literally.
It speaks in riddles.
If you can spot them, there are actually loads of hints to what has really happened.

Evolution is a pretty much proven theory.

So Iamthe1inur80 and other people like you, you all need to take some time and figure those hints out. If you believe in exactly what the Holy Bible says, it is more like of a brainwash resulting in a enforced religious thinking, which makes you an idiot who fights against the fact that is evolution. You are not a true Christian if you take the Bible literally.

There is religion, just all people are not a part of it.
If you have arguments and opinions, you are not a fool to share them, you just shouldn't enforce them to others.

There are many people. There are evolutionists, let them be and let them think what they want to think. The same goes for Christians, atheists and everybody else.


I hope you all get it.