Why do i believe in God?
Wait....
im still thinking of reasons.
see my point?

I believe because the world is hopeless.

I believe because facts were made up.<-i can explain if you ask.

In my mind this makes perfect sense.

Right now i challenge you chrisitians and you atheists...agnostics...whatever it be...to really examine your lives. To really take everything youve been through every single situation that youve been faced with and to justify it.

Because I cannot justify a world with God and I cannot justify a world without God.
Basically this is a discussion thread...pick at me...and justify it...pick at another member but justify it....

you dont need to read that^

Now the topic:

Why are we so concerned with religon, and the likes?

We are concerned because religion is trying to push us back to the stone age

Religion there because we need something to believe in.
And something to lighten the load and the scare of death.

Yeah, it's made up.

because people are dumb

We care cause I can't take people falling for that "you gotta listen to pope to have a good afterlife, even if this life you are living is PROBABLY the life you are ever gonna live, you still have to believe in clouds and heaven and chocolate and lesbian pools"

Because religion blinds people that could have otherwise been very intelligent.
I really think I should post up the anthropic principle (both planetary and cosmological) in another thread (well.. two threads)

I'm tired of people using "God" to solve the problem of the origin of life, as if it explains anything, it explains NOTHING, and only heightens the problem.



Not to MENTION all of the disputes, wars, etc, all based/caused by, religion, whether directly or indirectly.

Death is a scary thing, I don't want to believe that when I'm dead I'm just dead and that's it. That sucks! I prefer to believe that I get to live another whole life, and I have lived many more before. Plus the world an universe are uncomprehendable, at least religions attempt to answer in a way that people that aren't geniouses can understand.

Death is a scary thing, I don't want to believe that when I'm dead I'm just dead and that's it. That sucks! I prefer to believe that I get to live another whole life, and I have lived many more before. Plus the world an universe are uncomprehendable, at least religions attempt to answer in a way that people that aren't geniouses can understand.


I like this statement because you used the word prefer-as in preference...as in choice...
freewill.

I guess what i cant get my head around is the concept of death...

and the concept of consequence.

I think we are living our consequences everyday.
Say for one lie, that spanned so greatly it could create followers by the millions...

or say for one example of a man that impacted his people that such stories of his life and his apostles came forth.

But where is the truth. What is guaranteed?
Not this life...not absoluely anything.

Man created religon.

And if this God is real...
he has nothing to do with it.

I said in my first post this world is without God.
And it is.
Because God isnt of the world...You feel me...
So many things begin to make sense when your at a desperation to find something to believe in.

For me religon is what i want it to be. i take things from the bible that might help me better my life. But i don't live my life under all the rules of religon.

Why are we so concerned with religon, and the likes?

Believing in God...well, nothing wrong with that.

Believing in religion...sorry, there's a problem there. You can believe in God, but why do you have to believe your God is the right God? And that your God hates homosexuals? And that your God sends every other religion & non-believers into hellfire?

That I will never understand.

Believing in God...well, nothing wrong with that.

Believing in religion...sorry, there's a problem there. You can believe in God, but why do you have to believe your God is the right God? And that your God hates homosexuals? And that your God sends every other religion & non-believers into hellfire?

That I will never understand.
yes yes i want to differentiate religon and sole faith in God.
they are totally apart from one another.
and hmm
Why are we clinged to this...assurance...this knowing that God is the only way. Why?
Theres more questions fersure.

I see that religon sets a way to live rather then a reason to live.

and im stuck on finding that reason...solely.
i dont need a way...or a light
i need the truth...and God has offered that.

Because what happens after?
I mean if this is all true...then does God give us an opportunity to redeem ourselves...do we get to stand before him and explain...is he going to justify why we are to go to hell or to heaven. whether homosexual, or lustful, or of some other religon that doesnt serve god...or practices that dont glorify God.

What about this ideal of a new earth...

I mean Christians can you fill me in here...im so confused...i was once soo sure...but now im stuck and i really dont want to move.

We care about others believes because they try to push them on each us.

Look. Nobody says "**** off you stupid buddhists!" Why? Because it's believers do not shove their believes in others faces like christians and athiests do.

Why? Because it's believers do not shove their believes in others faces like christians and athiests do.

What? Atheists are believers now? lmfao

interesting twist on things

some 'Christians and Atheists' do go around stuffing their beliefs down other peoples throats...

the approach is totally wrong.
the situations are predetermined...and already fixed...

there is no spontaneous effect of the matter
when one is perfectly content in their ideals.

What? Atheists are believers now? lmfao


Atheists believe there is no God. It is a belief. lmfao.

Atheists believe there is no God. It is a belief. lmfao.

So, let me get this straight...Atheists are trying, to, uuuh, force their "non-beliefs" down other people's throats?

wow

So, let me get this straight...Atheists are trying, to, uuuh, force their "non-beliefs" down other people's throats?

wow


How many times have you tried to disprove religion to people?

How many times have you tried to disprove religion to people?

I'm sorry, I don't get it, how is debating against religion trying to force 'beliefs' down other people's throats? That's equivalent to saying the scientists that test theories are trying to force their 'non-beliefs' of those theories down other people's throats. Unlike your religious friends I don't assert to know the truth...

That's a pretty pathetic post you made there, I did laugh though...forgot whether it was at the stupidity or the ridiculousness (probably both).

attempting to turn people away from their views and into your own is forcing beliefs down others throats. It's not the the equivalent to saying scientists that test theories are trying to force their beliefs onto people, it's more akin to saying scientists that develop theories and bring them directly to the christian community saying "nah nah nah nah boo boo, i proved you guys wrong. listen to me, i'm right," are shoving what they believe onto other people.

Maybe you don't understand the concept, or maybe you are too self righteous to see atheists are no better at religious folk when it comes to spreading their ideas, but it was neither stupid or ridiculous. If you find it either, it is simply a reflection of self.

So many things wrong with your post, apparently I'm arguing with a closet fundie.

First, Atheism is not a system of beliefs. When I said stupid, I meant it, for example:

Maybe you don't understand the concept, or maybe you are too self righteous to see atheists are no better at religious folk when it comes to spreading their ideas, but it was neither stupid or ridiculous

Look at what you just wrote, "Atheists are no better than religious folks when it comes to spreading their ideas"

What exactly are these ideas again? It's not the idea that we won't believe something until there's evidence, is it? If you honestly believe that questioning unproven statements is a set of beliefs then you probably should spend the next hour or two reading up on logic.

You're an Atheist in terms of pink unicorns, and if I were to assert that pink unicorns exist, you would say "prove it" or "there's no evidence" - you wouldn't be shoving your non-belief down my throat, would you?

it's more akin to saying scientists that develop theories and bring them directly to the christian community saying "nah nah nah nah boo boo, i proved you guys wrong. listen to me, i'm right," are shoving what they believe onto other people.

If you find it either, it is simply a reflection of self.

So, let me try to comprehend this:

-Scientist questions validity of religion
-Scientist finds fact, creates hypothesis
-Scientists' hypothesis goes through the difficult process and finally develops into a theory
-Scientist brings his scientific theory into question against the validity of religion
-and because of this, scientist is now a bigot?

It would help if you first knew what a scientific theory is, it isn't something that cave men can just make up and assert to the scientific community as a theory.

So many things wrong with your post, apparently I'm arguing with a closet fundie.

First, Atheism is not a system of beliefs. When I said stupid, I meant it, for example:

Look at what you just wrote, "Atheists are no better than religious folks when it comes to spreading their ideas"

What exactly are these ideas again? It's not the idea that we won't believe something until there's evidence, is it? If you honestly believe that questioning unproven statements is a set of beliefs then you probably should spend the next hour or two reading up on logic.

You're an Atheist in terms of pink unicorns, and if I were to assert that pink unicorns exist, you would say "prove it" or "there's no evidence" - you wouldn't be shoving your non-belief down my throat, would you?



Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/luna.html) - Cite This Source (http://dictionary.reference.com/cite.html?qh=atheism&ia=luna) - Share This (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/atheism#sharethis) a·the·ism http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif (http://dictionary.reference.com/audio.html/lunaWAV/A07/A0777900) Audio Help (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/audio.html) /ˈeɪhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngθiˌɪzhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngəm/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ey-thee-iz-uhhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngm] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun 1.the doctrine or belief that there is no God.


The doctrine of BELIEF that there is no God. As I have said before, it is impossible to prove or disprove the existence of God. So either side you take on it, it is a belief. Think there is a God? that is your belief. Think there isn't a God? that is your belief.
And so, by definition, Atheism is a belief.
So, your whole premise - "First, Atheism is not a system of beliefs."
is wrong.
I have the logic down, you have the logic down. Perhaps where we differ is in the definitions. I choose to use the correct definitions, you choose to argue based upon your own.

Your pink unicorn argument looks good at first, until you look at the correct definition, which is a belief that there is no God, not 'no pink unicorns.' So no, I am not atheist in terms of Pink Unicorns.
Regardless, I will humor it. If you told me Pink Unicorns were real, and I said to prove it, I would not be 'shoving my beliefs down your throat.' It would simply be questioning. I never condemned questioning, those are words you put into my mouth and proceeded to argue against as though I had made the claim myself.
However, if you told me Pink Unicorns were real, and you truly believed that, and my response was "You're crazy. That's a fairy tale, it's wrong. I'm right, this is right, listen to me." I would be shoving my beliefs down your throat. Regardless of truth, i would be shoving my beliefs down your throat.
What is true and what is false has nothing to do with belief. In any case, attack what a person believes in and telling them it is false and they should instead believe an alternative is what i call shoving one's beliefs down anothers throat - which both sides are guilty of.




-Scientist questions validity of religion
-Scientist finds fact, creates hypothesis
-Scientists' hypothesis goes through the difficult process and finally develops into a theory
-Scientist brings his scientific theory into question against the validity of religion
-and because of this, scientist is now a bigot?

It would help if you first knew what a scientific theory is, it isn't something that cave men can just make up and assert to the scientific community as a theory.

First, the latter paragraph is nothing but ad hominem.


Allow me to set this straight. No, that scientist is not a bigot. never once did i say he would be a bigot. Never once did I say questioning religion is shoving their beliefs down their throats.
Your are taking my words, twisting them or inventing new ones I never used, and then arguing based upon that.
In simplest terms, let me explain my premise.

People get upset about religion issues because other people try to turn them from their views. Atheists try to turn people to atheism. Christians try to turn people onto Jesus.

That was my original meaning. Again, I never said question religion was shoving belief down anothers throat. I never said praising God was shoving belief down another's throat. Perhaps the problem arose when I used you as an example, saying something like "how many threads have you tried disprove religion in?" You may or may not shove what you believe down other people's throats, but you cannot deny that it happens, and that it happens on both sides.

I think despite what you just said, athiesm still is not a system of beliefs. To be athiest is to believe there is no god, so yes, it's a belief. But a system of beliefs implies that all athiests follow the same beliefs about how the world came to be, why we're here, where we go, etc... as those are the questions other systems of beliefs try to answer.

okay, that is valid, but whether it is a system or a singular belief does not change the fact it is able to be forced upon others.

Anything is able to be forced upon others. I could force string cheese on you. I could force a rock on you. I could force a set of beliefs on you, or force a lack of beliefs on you. I don't think athiesm can be grouped because really it's a lack of something that unites the individuals, and it's only one aspect, which in no way affects their daily lives to live by similar routines.

Think about it this way, this big chunk of rock and minerals is called earth, we call it earth because it's a united piece of, well... it's a planet, I don't ened to explain earth to you. We call stars, stars, because they're masses of hydrogen and other stuff, but do we take clumps of space and call them sectors? I suppose, but only to define what's in those sectors. We wouldn't consider the empty void of space to be one body like we would the earth. It's nothing, there's nothing there.

I see what you're saying, but I would exactly align empty space and atheists together. Atheism is a believe there is no God or supreme being. It isn't quite nothingness. I don't know where i'm going with this.
either way, I don't see particular relevance, though it is interesting. Maybe I'm missing the point.
you can't clump atheists together, right.
but that doesn't mean atheistic views can't be forced upon others - which was what i was saying in the first place.

the original question was why, why do people make such a big deal out of religious issues?
and i said because people don't keep things to themselves, basically.

1.the doctrine or belief that there is no God.

That is an inaccurate definition and I'll prove to you why....
Doctrine: a belief (or system of beliefs) accepted as authoritative by some group or school

There is no doctrine in Atheism, and it is not a system of beliefs, it's an idiotic assumption to belief "Atheism" is belonging to any sort of system or doctrine to begin with.

As I have said before, it is impossible to prove or disprove the existence of God.

Yes, and I have already told you countless amount of times how incredibly moronic that argument is. You can not disprove anything that lacks evidence or has none to begin with.

So either side you take on it, it is a belief. Think there is a God? that is your belief. Think there isn't a God? that is your belief.
And so, by definition, Atheism is a belief.

Sure, it's a belief that we don't belief? That's your argument? So Atheists are shoving their belief of non-belief for other people's beliefs?

So, your whole premise - "First, Atheism is not a system of beliefs."
is wrong.
I have the logic down, you have the logic down. Perhaps where we differ is in the definitions. I choose to use the correct definitions, you choose to argue based upon your own.

It's not a system of beliefs

Your pink unicorn argument looks good at first, until you look at the correct definition, which is a belief that there is no God, not 'no pink unicorns.' So no, I am not atheist in terms of Pink Unicorns.

God is vague, we'll say the Pink Unicorns are Gods, you're an Atheist in terms of pink unicorns.

Regardless, I will humor it. If you told me Pink Unicorns were real, and I said to prove it, I would not be 'shoving my beliefs down your throat.' It would simply be questioning. I never condemned questioning, those are words you put into my mouth and proceeded to argue against as though I had made the claim myself.
However, if you told me Pink Unicorns were real, and you truly believed that, and my response was "You're crazy. That's a fairy tale, it's wrong. I'm right, this is right, listen to me." I would be shoving my beliefs down your throat.

When do Atheists say "I'm absolutely right, you're absolutely wrong. Pink Unicorns do not exist!" - I don't remember any Atheists saying that. Not even me, not even Dawkins...

You may or may not shove what you believe down other people's throats, but you cannot deny that it happens, and that it happens on both sides.

Are there arrogant people on both sides? Sure
Do people think they're absolutely right on both sides? Yes

But to think "Atheists" are shoving "beliefs of non-belief" down other people's throats is just wrong. When you say "shove" the first thing I think of is taking a system of beliefs and forcing them down other people.

Atheists who argue with Theists, as far as I've seen, are not shoving beliefs down anyone's throat but arguing the Theistic beliefs, in which they assert of God's existence. Maybe attacking their beliefs is more like it

1. A principle or body of principles presented for acceptance or belief

definition of doctrine from the same site I got the definition of atheism from.


Regardless, you can attack what i say, even blindly (take that second quote for example, took it out of context and tried to treat it alone as an argument rather than part of a whole.), you can individually take down single words I use or sentences at a time, but as a whole you can't touch it - which is why i suppose you don't quote me when i've said it, which is twice now.




People get upset about religion issues because other people try to turn them from their views. Atheists try to turn people to atheism. Christians try to turn people onto Jesus.

the original question was why, why do people make such a big deal out of religious issues?
and i said because people don't keep things to themselves, basically.


i'll keep it that simple now. Don't try any of your backwards logic, don't take a single sentence at a time, out of context and try to make me look foolish to people who don't realize what you're doing.


[B]But to think "Atheists" are shoving "beliefs of non-belief" down other people's throats is just wrong. /B]

Yes, that happens. Just because you don't do it, or Richard Dawkins doesn't do it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Even if you haven't seen it, I have.




Also, we can just clear it up now. Belief and "belief of non belief" are the same thing.
you can say you believe there isn't a god, or say you don't believe in God, but you're saying the same thing.





to say absolutely atheists all keep quiet, and never try to turn people away from their religions is simple a lie.

It really doesn't matter now, in other words, you assume that Theists shove their beliefs down other people's throats because they can not keep it to themselves (which is true) ... and assume that Atheists shove their non-belief of someone elses' belief down their throats to make them (the believers) believe their non-belief of the person's original belief (which is idiotic).

I just don't see how you can shove something down someone's throat when the premise your using is their assertion to begin with (there is a God).

to say absolutely atheists all keep quiet, and never try to turn people away from their religions is simple a lie.

But there is a difference between turning people from their beliefs by presenting something, hmm, I don't know...like evidence? And between asserting something exists (ie: fairies, Santa, God, etc)

People get upset about religion issues because other people try to turn them from their views. Atheists try to turn people to atheism. Christians try to turn people onto Jesus.

the original question was why, why do people make such a big deal out of religious issues?
and i said because people don't keep things to themselves, basically.





I've already repeated it, but you won't even attempt to respond to my major premise.

I think the reason people get upset, or at least, the reason I don't like religion is the fact that it's forced onto us, directly and indirectly. For example, it really upsets me to see that creationism is being pushed into schools, or the fact that people are dying overseas because of religious conflicts, or that people think they own the right to marriage, etc.

The biggest thing I can't stand is how stem cells (which could be our future cures to cancer) are always delayed with filibusters, which prevents scientists from actively working on them.

Maybe the reason people are so aggressive is because of the assertion people have with their own religion. If we're going to have an apocalypse in our lifetime, it's going to be because of religious reasons because some think Jesus is coming, some think 72 virgins are waiting, and quite frankly I think they're all crazies and the less of them that believe, the more we progress (eg: Israel usually wants peace, Palestine always wants conflicts; now take a look at how much each country contributes to the world)